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 Post subject: OLD IRISH for tattoo :)
PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2016 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon 20 Jun 2016 3:06 pm
Posts: 6
Good afternoon to all.

This is my first post here, and I would like to thank everyone on the forum for all the help you can provide me,
and just for the fact that you are trying to preserve your language, which is unfortunately not the common norm around many countries.

I am based in Portugal and I am going to create a tattoo which will contain 5 of these conceptual words: WISDOM, KNOWLEDGE, HAPPINESS, PEACE / TRANQUILITY, COURAGE / SPIRIT, HEALTH, INTELLIGENCE. Now here's the twist: I need these 5 concepts tattooed... in OLD IRISH, not MODERN IRISH. Let me tell you how far I got in my investigation (coming here without any homework done would have been offensive to say the least):

1 - COURAGE / SPIRIT
For this concept of courage, spirit, hopefulness and pushing forward through uncertainty I have chosen the MODERN IRISH Misneach. I believe the OLD IRISH for this is MEISNECH. Can you let me know if I got this right?

2 - PEACE / TRANQUILITY
For this concept of serenity, tranquility and "at peace" I have chosen the MODERN IRISH word Suaimhneas. I believe the OLD IRISH for this is SÚAIMNES. Can you let me know if I got this right?

now things start to become tricky...

3 - HAPPINESS
For this concept of happiness (which we all know what it is) I had chosen the MODERN IRISH Sona. However, I soon discovered the word has even more power, meaning luck and fortune (happiness through fortune smiling at you). Now I am not sure this is the same concept. I really want the concept of happiness (no matter in which form) not exactly requesting or invoking that fortune favors me. I researched the OLD IRISH and I found that for Sona I believe it is Sonus (which seems to mean happiness and prosperity); however, fortune, happiness and luck (which seems to be the full meaning of Sona) actually has a different word, Sothcad. Can you advise on this?

4 - WISDOM
Very tricky one. I had chosen Críonnacht for this (because there was another word for Sage and Wiseman, not what I am looking for) but when I researched the OLD IRISH I have nothing even remotely similar, I had Ecnae, Forsaide, Gáes and Sruithe. This one I'm at a loss and I have nowhere to go really... :/ I'll have one for inspiration :guiness:

5 - KNOWLEDGE
And this one literally got me confused. I had chosen Fios and had the OLD IRISH for it, Fis, but then all sorts of words which supposedly mean the same thing came out, including one which also meant wisdom; aithnius, ecnae, eól, eólas, etargne, rús and sous. Should I chose Gáes for Wisdom (and get Intelligence as a bonus concept) and here chose... what? :/ Because for Knowledge you should have intelligence to understand them as well... I'll have another :guiness:

6 - HEALTH
Is this actually Sláinte (or Shláinte)? I was a bit surprised to see this and the Cheers word being the same, I thought it would have been something different :) So is this OLD IRISH sláine, sláinte or slántu? :??:

7 - INTELLIGENCE
Not really sure about this one, I chose Faisnéise, but then I got unrelated OLD IRISH, such as cíall, engnae, gáes and menmanrad (so we see again a mix of wisdom and intelligence). I would tend towards engnae or menmanrad, which means intelligence / understanding and intelligence / thought... so I am at a loss here as well... even because the word Faisnéise might come from Forsaide, but that relates to... Wisdom... :( :guiness: :guiness: :guiness:

I know it's a long topic for a starting one, but I would appreciate everything you can help with here.

Sláinte :toast:


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun 2016 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri 12 Jun 2015 10:18 pm
Posts: 46
Hi, a chara,

1) COURAGE/SPIRIT
Mod. misneach
Old. meisnech is good

2) PEACE/TRANQUILITY
Mod. suaimhneas (peace is also commonly translated as síocháin)
Old. súaimnes or sámae (again síthcháin can also apply, from síd "peace, goodwill", meaning "peace/a state of peace")

3) HAPPINESS
Mod. sonas (sona is an adjective, "happy", whereas sonas is a noun)
Old. sonus (< son, an adjective meaning "happiness" and "prosperity") in Old Irish can mean prosperity, happiness or good fortune. Like you said, sothcad (< so- meaning "good" and tocad [< *toughā, cf. Toicthech/TOGITACC] "fortune, chance, prosperity") means "good luck" or "good fortune", which is then extended to "happiness".

4) WISDOM
Mod. eagna
Old. ecnae

5) KNOWLEDGE
Fios (Old. fis) would mean the knowledge one acquires. If you want to portray something along the lines of "the possession of knowledge" a word similar to the English "learning" or "mastery" probably suits Irish better.
Mod. foghlaim
Old. foglaimm (< fo-gleinn originally meaning "[under]gathers" later giving "studies, learns") "acquired learning, knowledge"
For something more like "erudition" or "sage-like wisdom" maybe:
Mod. saíocht or gaois
Old. suíthe/saídecht or gáes

6) HEALTH
Mod. sláinte
Old. slántu (< slán "healthy, whole, sound, safe")

7) INTELLIGENCE
Mod. éirim (good at thinking, intelligence) or ciall (sense, intelligence)
Old. cíall (sense, mind, intelligence)

OK, so overall I'd recommend the following:
Mod. MISNEACH, SUAIMHNEAS, SONAS, EAGNA, GAOIS, SLÁINTE, ÉIRIM
Old. MEISNECH, SÚAIMNES, SONUS, ECNAE, FOGLAIMM, SLÁNTU, CÍALL

or for beautiful alliteration ( ;) ):
Mod. SPRID (or SPIORAD), SUAIMHNEAS, SONAS, SAÍOCHT, SAINEOLAS (expert knowledge), SLÁINTE, STUAIM (astuteness)
Old. SPIRUT, SÚAIMNES, SONUS, SUÍTHE, SOUS(< so- + fios), SLÁNTU, STÚAIM (ingenuity, cleverness) or SAPAIRT (not well attested, possibly from Latin sapere "to know")
Old. pronunciation: [spirˠud], [suaṽʲnes], [sonus], [si:θʲe], [so.əs] (later SÓS [so:s]), [sla:ntu], [stuamʲ ]/[sabˠirt]


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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun 2016 9:49 am 
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Joined: Mon 20 Jun 2016 3:06 pm
Posts: 6
Dia duit Embarien, conas atá tú?

Go raibh maith agat, I cannot express enough thanks for your quick and in-depth analysis to my request.
With all that you have provided, it is clear my knowledge was indeed lacking, and with your reply,
I have avoided many serious mistakes.

Again, thank you. :) :) :)

Sláinte :toast:
Alban


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PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep 2016 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon 20 Jun 2016 3:06 pm
Posts: 6
Ok so I chose the words, they will be five:

SPIRUT, SONUS, SUÍTHE, SLÁNTU, STÚAIM
[spirˠud], [sonus], [si:θʲe], [sla:ntu], [stuamʲ]

While I was preparing to transluterate to ogham however,
I saw that phonetics don't match exactly the writing
And I know ogham does have particularities.

Can anyone help with the ogham transliteration? :/

Thanks in advance for all the help you can provide.

Sláinte
Alban


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