Dia dhoibh gach daoine. Luke Ó Scolaidhe is ainm dom agus is as an Inse i gcontae na Mhí mé. Bhí mé ag foghlaim gaeilge ar faigh dhá bliann anuas. Nior thuigim a lán gaeilge riamh sin ach bhí mé i gconnai ag iaraidh a bheith gaeilge a chaint. Mar oichhe amhain nuair a bhí mé amach leis mo chara agus bhí mé ar meisce, Bhímuid ag caint leis faoí ár theanga féin agus duairt mé go raibh an brónach. Cén fath? Mar nior feidir lion geailge a chaint ar cur ar bith! Tar eis sin, thosaigh mé ag foghlaim mo theanga fein mar bhí nairaigh orm.

Chuaigh me go rang geailge i colaiste Geal Linn i Baile Átha Cliath ar faigh sé seachtainn ach ní bhainn me móron eoilais as. Bhíonn me ag múinadh mé féin ó shin ach tá eagla orm anois go bhuil táim ag foghlaim gach rud cearr. Ní aon múinteoir agam agus tá sé an crúa. Tá suil agam go bhuil tá sé sin ceart go leor? Ta a fhois agam geailge ufasach agam!


Hello everyone! Luke Ó Scolaidhe is my name and I am from Laytown in co. Meath. I have been learning Irish for two years. I didn't understand much Irish before then but always wanted to be able to speak it. One night when I was out with my friend and I was drunk we were talking about the Irish language and I said that I was sad. Why? Because I could not speak any Irish. After that I started learning my own language because I was embarrassed.

I went to an Irish class for six weeks in Geal Linn in Dublin but did not learn a lot from that. I have been teaching myself since then but I am afraid I am learning everything wrong. I have no teacher and it is hard. I hope that that is OK? I know my Irish is awful but I am really trying to learn!

Hi, you could phrase that like this in Irish:

Dia dhíbh, a dhaoine uile! Lúcás Ó Scolaí is ainm dom agus as an Ínse i gcúntae na Mí me. Táim ag foghlaim na Gaelainne le dhá bhliain anuas. Ní thuiginn a lán Gaelainne roimis sin ach do bhínn i gcónaí a d'iarraidh ar í ' labhairt. Oíche agus me amu' in éineacht le caraid liom, do bhíos ar meisce, agus do bhíomair ag cainnt ar an nGaelainn agus 'sé aduart féin ná go rabhas ana-bhrónach mar gheall air. Cad 'na thaobh? Mar nárbh fhéidir liom an Ghaelainn do labhairt in ao' chor. Tamall 'na dhiaidh san, do thosnaíos ar an dteangain d'foghlaim mar go raibh an náire sin go léir orm.

Do chuas go rang Gaelainne i gcolaiste Gael Línn i mBleá Cliath ar feadh sé seachtaine ach níor bhaineas mórán eólais as san. Bím am múineadh féin (ag staidéar liom féin) riamh ó shin ach tá ceist orm anois, b'fhéidir go bhfuilim ag foghlaim gach ao' rud mícheart? Níl aon mhúinteóir agam agus bíonn sé go dian. Tá súil agam go bhfuil san ceart go leór. Tá 's agam go bhfuil Gaelainn uathásach agam cé go bhfuil mo dhícheall agam á dhéanamh ar dhul chun cínn!

Note that you referred to Irish as "ár dteanga féin" and "mo theanga féin", but it clearly is not your language, even if it was the language of your ancestors. Your language is English - and you are learning a language still spoken in the Gaeltacht - it is THEIR language.

I'd say that this is an import point of caution.

I've met too many people who get too quickly invested as the language they're learning being somehow "theirs" that they have failed to be mindful of their limitations, and when called up on their errors, they dismiss it as "dialectal differences".

Stay humble and be prepared to accept any correction humbly, no matter how convinced you are that what you said is correct.

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

+1

I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to take ownership of Irish, to see it as somehow contributing to their identity and getting some kind of joy from that notion. It's part of what motivates a lot of people to learn Irish, including myself when I was a youngster growing up in Belfast. This idea does NOT necessarily lead to an arrogant position vis-à-vis the Irish spoken in the Gaeltacht, or a refusal to accept correction, or to try to improve - so why respond like this so belligerently to someone who is just trying to learn?

I'm sure this will provoke you terribly, but I see Irish as my language, as much as anyone else's, and I'm very proud of how I speak it - as close as I can get it to the way my native speaker friends speak. Your angry doctrine would have it that it's NOT my language, and that it NEVER will be - but I've never been told this by anyone I've met in the three parishes, and they are the people you're apparently defending!

Listen, you're obviously an angry man, and God knows you seem to have your own problems, but your passion for the language doesn't excuse your bullying, overbearing manner, and your myopic silliness. This is supposed to be a forum for learners. Why not tone down your pointless preaching - you never know, your message might become a little more effective. Alternatively, just keep shouting, and let this place become a soulless echo-chamber!

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Ultach mé agus Gaeilg Uladh a labhraim go measardha maith!

An Braonach, the reason why people look down on native Irish and assert that a made-up form used in non-Irish speaking areas is the correct Irish - is precisely because it is asserted that Irish is - not "should be" or "should become" or "ought to have been" - but "is" the native language of all of Ireland and of all in Ireland.

Take ownership of the language - why don't you? - in the same way that if you learn French you will "take ownership" of it. Lúghaidh has taken ownership of Ulster Irish in a strong way - he often refers to it as "our dialect", referring to himself and other learners as well as the native population of the Ulster dialect - but without denying that it is the native speakers of the Donegal Gaeltacht who are the authentic native speakers of it.

But it is just not - incontrovertibly not - the native language of learners in Belfast. That's just a fact. I do not say you should not be interested in it - quite the reverse, especially if you're learning the real Donegal dialect - but you do so as a learner - and a learner who will face greater hurdles than if you had been a Belfast native learning French.

Irish is a hard language for Irish native speakers of English to learn. I would suggest there are dozens of European languages that Belfast natives could make deeper headway in than Irish. Swedish? German? French? Italian? Spanish? Norwegian? Danish? Afrikaans? Dutch? Frisian? Catalan? Romanian? even Greek? etc.

By the way, I applaud your determination to speak as close to the way your native speaker friends speak as possible - that's the spirit! Sin é an geist mar adeirid na Gearmánaigh!

No-one is doing that here. You're answering arguments that haven't been made here. It's frustrating.


Again, no-one here has said that it is. And anyway, when learners of Irish in Ireland say the language is their "native language", they obviously don't mean that in a linguistic sense. It's generally an innocent remark that is meant to denote the cultural or emotional resonances the language has for them. So they're using the term incorrectly, but you don't need to jump down their throat like some kind of high priest preaching hellfire and bloody damnation.


What on earth are you talking about? Again, you're responding to an argument that no-one has made here, and this is exactly what I meant by your "myopic silliness" in my last post. Stop seeing phantoms, stop with the paranoia, and tone down that officious, high-handed, spirit-crushing attitude of yours that generally makes this a less pleasant place for learners or for anyone else.

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Ultach mé agus Gaeilg Uladh a labhraim go measardha maith!

A Bhraonaigh, I think we are agreeing with each other - which is good. The Irish language does have cultural resonances for people in Ireland, surrounded by placenames and surnames derived from Irish, and generally fewer generations than is sometimes realised from native Irish. I think the Co. Tyrone an Co. Down ancestors I can document were already English speakers, but I think the Co. Cork ancestors I can document would still have been speakers of Irish in the mid-19th century!

I remember I got all enthusiastic once and said "in our dialect" and an Irishman jumped on me "What do you mean your dialect?" So I've been a bit more careful about not saying that since ...

Personally I believe the language belongs to whoever uses it, but it is important for learners to note that there are people like that out there and not to get put off by it. It is all part of the process.

A language needs a diverse range of people to keep it alive and that includes sticklers for the old-fashioned stuff and people willing to push the language into new frontiers (and every now and then we get on each other's goat! )

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

I don't see the point in this bickering over whose language it is. The point is the language is struggling, it needs people who want to learn it, more specifically it needs people in Ireland who want to learn and use it, and you'll catch a lot more flies with honey than you will with vinegar.

As I understand it, there exists a traditional nationalistic claim that the Irish language belongs to the Irish people, native speakers or not. Irish will undergo changes as more and more non-natives learn to speak it, and that's just the price to pay if you want the language to survive.

If you want to keep it in a closed off zone for natives only, then you might as well start counting the days till there are only a few of you left.

Don't mean to be caustic, but that's undoubtedly where the language is headed if that's the attitude native speakers are going to take.

I understand it can be frustrating when some sod who mangles the language pretends that he's speaking some made-up dialect, but people like that are relatively few and their mere existence doesn't justify this sort of territorial attitude over ownership of the language.