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PostPosted: Sun 15 Sep 2013 5:47 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gSAkUOElsg

Déanann sé comparáid suimiúil idir Esperanto agus an basún.

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PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2013 3:14 pm 
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http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_i ... ts_id=5060

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013 2:32 pm 
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I don't know how this relates to the linguistic side of things, but it is always funny to hear people advocating the "recorder" as a "simple" instrument when the tin whistle is a _much_ simpler instrument to learn to play - and far superior, especially if you are aiming to play Irish music. :LOL:

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013 5:38 pm 
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People get a bit obsessed with making everything easy. You want to learn Irish, but Esperanto would be easier. You want to learn the fiddle, but the recorder would be easier. You want to train for the marathon, but the 100 metre sprint would be easier. Learn the “easy” skill first, and put off the “difficult” work until later.

I'm excited about learning Irish, so why should I wait until I have a good knowledge of Esperanto (or Spanish, or Dutch) before I learn Irish? There's nothing wrong with learning those other languages, but if my goal is to learn Irish, why should I go through some intermediary stage before I start working on the language that I'm interested in?

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013 5:51 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
I don't know how this relates to the linguistic side of things, but it is always funny to hear people advocating the "recorder" as a "simple" instrument when the tin whistle is a _much_ simpler instrument to learn to play - and far superior, especially if you are aiming to play Irish music. :LOL:

I'd say that just makes the analogy all the more accurate. Esperanto isn't the easiest language on the planet -- it's got its own bizarre quirks because it was devised by a guy who didn't know all that much about language in a time when even linguistics experts didn't know all that much about language.

The longevity of the recorder in schools is more to do with it being perceived as an easy instrument than it actually being one. (The whistle is unarguably easier, and the harmonica and glockenspiel are debatably easier too.) They also say it's good because it's cheap, but again this is perception rather than reality. (The whistle is definitely cheaper to make -- cheap recorders are only cheaper due to scale, and bottom-end harmonicas are on a par with school recorders.)

One of the main reasons Esperanto seems easy to learn is because it was invented with the teaching techniques of the day in mind, and that means it's particularly easy to teach using 19th century teaching techniques.

The reason language is in such a dire state in schools is that we keep forgetting the lessons we've learned and reverting to earlier techniques, and there's a risk that Esperanto could actual damage teaching due to circular logic:
Esperanto was designed to be taught a certain way, therefore it can be learned very successfully that way, which then leads the teacher to assume that the teaching method is effective in and of itself, with the end result that they try to teach other languages in a manner that is simply not effective for natural languages.

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013 10:45 pm 
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I understand why Zamenhof wanted to create a vehicular language that isn't politically linked to a particular culture and country... but at the same time I don't like artificial languages (including standard Irish, as you know :) ). And I don't feel especially influenced by the English or American cultures and countries when I use English :) It's possible to use English just as a communication tool :)

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PostPosted: Sat 21 Dec 2013 8:15 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
I understand why Zamenhof wanted to create a vehicular language that isn't politically linked to a particular culture and country... but at the same time I don't like artificial languages (including standard Irish, as you know :) ). And I don't feel especially influenced by the English or American cultures and countries when I use English :) It's possible to use English just as a communication tool :)


I agree.
Learning Esperanto would be a total waste of my time.
We already have major international languages, English being the most widely used, but there is French, Spanish, German too.

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PostPosted: Sat 21 Dec 2013 10:02 am 
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NiallBeag wrote:
The reason language is in such a dire state in schools is that we keep forgetting the lessons we've learned and reverting to earlier techniques, and there's a risk that Esperanto could actual damage teaching due to circular logic:
Esperanto was designed to be taught a certain way, therefore it can be learned very successfully that way, which then leads the teacher to assume that the teaching method is effective in and of itself, with the end result that they try to teach other languages in a manner that is simply not effective for natural languages


Interesting point. I do recall from my days teaching that a lot of teachers are a bit stupid. (Not as stupid as accountants, though...) :ninja:

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Last edited by Breandán on Sat 21 Dec 2013 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Edited to fix broken quote tag.


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