i was looking at my book leabhar mór bhriathra na gaeilge, and for the munster irish conjugation of feic in the modh coinníollach it says that after go it becomes go bhfeicfí and after ná its ná feicfí.

This has me a little confused as its the exact same as the passive forms after ná and go.
Is this correct or a error in the book?

should it not be go bhfeicfeadh and ná feicfeadh ?

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Daithí, it took me a while to realise what you meant by the "passive" forms. Yes, feicfí is the conditional autonomous, and the 3rd person singular conditional is go bhfeicfeadh (we're sticking with dependent forms after go and ná).

I haven't seen that book, so I can't say what the context is, but he is probably talking about the autonomous forms.

The autonomous forms are not passive, but active. While, e.g., buailtear can be translated into English as "it is struck", which sounds passive, in Irish this is active. It means "someone strikes (it)" - the subject is not specified, but it is active. The reason why the autonomous is not passive that it has its own passive = táthar buailte.

Chífí é - it could be seen - means in Irish someone would see it - it is only passive in the English translation.

Glanfar an tigh - this means "someone will clean the house", or "people will clean the house" - the subject is not expressed, the object is tigh.

Beidh an tigh glanta - this means "the house will be cleaned" - the subject is tigh.

the book here seems to suggest that the conditional autonomous and the 3rd person singular conditional have the same form , both are (bh)feicfí. Which i thought was wrong as it doesn't seem to be the case in all the other verbs in the various moods and tenses. But going by what i thought and what you confirm it seems that it is a printing error . just wanted to confirm it is.

never new the autonomous forms were active, thanks for that

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Daithí, one way you can realise the autonomous forms are active is by looking at é.

Buailim é: I strike it. É is the object.
Buaileann sé é: He strikes it. É is the object, sé is the subject.

So when you have buailtear é, it is clear that é is still the object here. The subject is the unexpressed autonomous subject. People strike it, they strike it, someone strikes it.

If it were passive (as in English, "it is struck"), then "it" becomes the subject and the construction is turned round. So if it were passive, you would need to have sé in there, not é. Clearly, from the Irish, é is still the object, even in autonomous sentences.

This may not make much difference - because it does corresponds to a passive sentence in English - but we need to think in Irish, and let Irish have its own logic, without allowing the English to always have the upper hand.

it can be very hard to completely disconnect from your native language and think just in the target one

Especially when your almost a complete beginner in the target one.

But i suppose learning more sample sentences and phrases will help understand more how to construct sentences in Irish without having to translate everything from English first?

sometimes i feel like im doing a 10,000 piece jigsaw without a picture to go by. you wedge a few bits together and only find out later its wrong.

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Good analogy!

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