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PostPosted: Tue 27 Aug 2013 10:10 am 
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Joined: Sat 06 Jul 2013 9:07 am
Posts: 9
ééTá fáilte roimh gach éinne don suíomh idirlíon nua Is Féidir Liom (IFL).
A new updated version of the web site http://www.isfeidirliom.ie is now online.

Work on the site was supported by the DES (Department of Education & Skils , Ireland) and commissioned by Navan Education Centre.
It's self contained and completely free.
It works best in Google Chrome which has integrated Flash Player.
It may be necessary to zoom out on screen size.
Some layout problems in Firefox.

It's aimed at adults, particularly at parents but many teachers will find it very useful.
IFL courses are organised through Education Centres and schools.
If interested in becoming an IFL tutor, contact your local Education Centre.

We expect the new site to be officially launched in September.
Some work remains to be done on the site.

Meanwhile we welcome comments, corrections, suggestions.
All are welcome to join the IFL Discussion group from the web site.

Lots more info on the 'About' page.
Craobhscaoil é. Go raibh maith agaibh.
Seamus O'Neill (Navan)


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PostPosted: Tue 27 Aug 2013 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed 24 Jul 2013 2:31 am
Posts: 329
seamusoneill wrote:
ééTá fáilte roimh gach éinne don suíomh idirlíon nua Is Féidir Liom (IFL).
A new updated version of the web site http://www.isfeidirliom.ie is now online.

Work on the site was supported by the DES (Department of Education & Skils , Ireland) and commissioned by Navan Education Centre.
It's self contained and completely free.
It works best in Google Chrome which has integrated Flash Player.
It may be necessary to zoom out on screen size.
Some layout problems in Firefox.

It's aimed at adults, particularly at parents but many teachers will find it very useful.
IFL courses are organised through Education Centres and schools.
If interested in becoming an IFL tutor, contact your local Education Centre.

We expect the new site to be officially launched in September.
Some work remains to be done on the site.

Meanwhile we welcome comments, corrections, suggestions.
All are welcome to join the IFL Discussion group from the web site.

Lots more info on the 'About' page.
Craobhscaoil é. Go raibh maith agaibh.
Seamus O'Neill (Navan)



The idea of the site is a good one. The Irish is simple and at a level a new learner can dip into. But the Irish on the site is terrible. I got as far as "bean" - pronounced without a slender b - and "beach" - pronounced without a slender b.

Bean is not pronounced exactly the same as the English word "ban".

Maybe you can record the files with native speakers, and thus make a resource worth having?

Whoever read those files for that site is in need of elementary tuition in Irish.


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PostPosted: Tue 27 Aug 2013 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2114
Location: 91 - France
I'm afraid I have to agree (I believe I was the first to draw attention to this website). My own pronuciation is far from perfect, but I have to say that this aspect did strike me, and I was far from being alone. Having said that, I like the way the learning exercises are presented and structured.


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PostPosted: Tue 27 Aug 2013 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat 06 Jul 2013 9:07 am
Posts: 9
Thank you but your attitude underlines the plight of Irish and it truly saddens me! Please open your eyes! I've been teaching in primary school and giving adult classes since the late nineteen sixties (48 years). Realistically, more than 95% of primary and secondary teachers, like myself, don't come from the Gaeltacht. What does that say about the 'canúint' that's being taught in schools throughout Ireland. Furthermore, I designed and programmed the site and resources as a teaching aid for myself, over the past ten years. It would have been out of the question for me to cover the cost of employing a 'native speaker' - and from which Gaeltacht? Which dialect is 'proper' Irish? Is there consistency even within a Gaeltacht?

As a teacher, I have always been very committed to the Gaeilge and it's in that spirit that I'm handing down my work for free to any teacher, tutor or learner who would choose to use it. I've been in the Scoldrámaíocht movement for years and mo pháistí have won All Irelands. What's been your commitment?

If Foras na Gaeilge (or similar organisation) would like to make an offer to replace my 'blas' for a native 'blas', I'd be happy to talk with them about doing it.
Go raibh maith agat ar aon nós.

iar bunmhúinteoir


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PostPosted: Tue 27 Aug 2013 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed 24 Jul 2013 2:31 am
Posts: 329
It's interesting that you have been teaching Irish since the 1960s - but it is worrying also that there are no checks or standards to meet in order to have done so. It shows the Irish language is not taken seriously. If you teach Irish children that the word "bean" is pronounced exactly like the English word "ban", how can you teach them the difference between broad and slender? I admire your enthusiasm, but would not recommend your employment as a teacher. 95% of teachers come from the Galltacht - but they should have to meet minimum standards. Your website shows you are committed, but unable to teach the language properly. If your pupils have won prizes - that is further evidence that any old sh*t will do when it comes to Irish.

What is the cost of employing a native speaker to read words? Extremely low. From which Gaeltacht? Well, that is up to you - but even Standard Irish insists on a broad/slender distinction. Someone on this site has mentioned that there is or could be a "native-based Standard Irish", i.e. Standard Irish with good pronunciation, as shown in a textbook the name of which escapes me, but which starts with Bun-.

You seem committed, but you are destroying the language!

An fearr Gaeilge chaca ná Béarla cliste?


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug 2013 12:18 am 
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Joined: Sat 18 Aug 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 723
Location: Nua Mheicsiceo
seamusoneill wrote:
Realistically, more than 95% of primary and secondary teachers, like myself, don't come from the Gaeltacht. What does that say about the 'canúint' that's being taught in schools throughout Ireland.
Of course, it doesn't matter whether or not you come from a Gaeltacht, right? With a little hard work and dedication, ANYBODY can learn native (or at least near-native) pronunciation. If you thought it was important, I'm sure you would have learned good native pronunciation long ago. Of course, I think it's GREAT that you are dedicated to teaching Irish and it would be greater still, if you decide to learn, and teach, a native blas from any Gaeltacht. :lah:

If you were learning Spanish, Séamus, would you try to pronounce the words like a native Spanish speaker? I sure would! In fact, if my teacher told me that good pronunciation was not important, I would start looking for another teacher.

Needless to say, pronunciation is important to me and to several other people on this forum. I was really hoping that Is Féidir Liom would be something that could help me learn Irish :( but for me at least, an important part of learning a language is good pronunciation. Ah well, there is nothing I can do but forge ahead while trying my dead-level best to pronounce the words like a native Irish speaker. :reading:


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug 2013 3:29 am 
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Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 1581
Quote:
You seem committed, but you are destroying the language!


Patrick, your intemperate language is not acceptable on this forum. It's fine to make constructive criticism, but you should not be so insulting to anyone, and especially not to someone who has obviously dedicated a lot of time to promoting Irish. I don't know you personally, or your Irish abilities, but I know that you have already been counseled about your rude behavior. I'm one of the newer mods, so I'll leave it to the more experienced ones whether to delete your comments or take further action.

Seamus: Please do not take Patrick's rude behavior for a typical response. Things can get heated on the forum, and that's fine when debating issues, but most people are more polite in what they say.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug 2013 6:59 am 
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Joined: Sat 06 Jul 2013 9:07 am
Posts: 9
patrickjwalsh wrote:
You seem committed, but you are destroying the language! etc.
Go raibh maith agat. Patrick, I haven't managed to destroy the language in all my years as a teacher and it is highly unlikely that I am going to succeed now. It's quite insulting for you who know nothing about me as a person, or as a teacher, or anything about the teaching system to preach about things you now nothing about. I shall now consider myself blessed that I've never needed your recommendation for my job! Gaeilgeoirí with your attitude don't bring anything to the language. You're a big part of the problem. Without wanting to waste time with you, let me add that it's patently obvious that you wouldn't be a person to teach anyone anything. "Where ignorance is bliss ....." Slán


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug 2013 9:05 am 
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Joined: Sat 01 Jun 2013 8:46 pm
Posts: 466
Patrick your comments are incredibly rude and insensitive.
To point out how you think something could be improved in a polite manner would be acceptable.

But to insult and deride some ones Irish as "shit" because it doesn't meet your standard is demeaning to that person. Especially when they have shown great commitment to learning and spreading their enthusiasm amongst others.

One of the things I like about this forum is that it generally refrains from picking at peoples Irish, but is constructively encouraging .

Do you think such a hostile and negative attitude to anyone who doesn't speak Irish with a conservative Native blas is really going to encourage them ?

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug 2013 4:32 pm 
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Posts: 9
patrickjwalsh wrote:
Standard Irish with good pronunciation, as shown in a textbook the name of which escapes me, but which starts with Bun-.

With all your ranting a Phádraig, if the textbook to which you refer happens to be Bun go Barr published by CJ Fallon (used in primary schools nationwide) it gives me some satisfaction to tell you that I was one of the production team. Likewise, I am one of the authors of 'Mata Draíochta' and 'Mathemagic' also published by CJ Fallon. Teachers can get onto these teams only if they meet very high standards. I'll rest my case. Go raibh maith agat arís.


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