Apologies if the title offended anyone, but it is useful to make it clear what a question is about in the title of the thread. I tried to be delicate by inserting the '*' instead of the clearly offensive 'i'.

My question relates to suitability of usage with children. I would happily use the word 'poo' in English with a child, but would refrain from saying 'shit' as it seems a little (or very) inappropriate. Is 'cac' more like shit or poo? I'm thinking 'shit' and have avoided it, but actually am unsure.

Shit stirrers are welcome in on this one! Alternative words for delicately expressing number twos are welcome also!

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Irish doesn't have the same taboos with such words as English does.
So "cac" is used for all the English terms; shit, poo, excrement etc.
You could use it as a deminitive - caicín maybe
Same with similar words, for urine, sex etc. No need to come up with euphemisms for them.
Although when I was little we used "tobarín" (little well) for urinating. But I realised later it was just a family thing.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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'caicín' almost sounds cute until you think about what it is! I quite like it as an option though.


Now, that really is cute!

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I find Irish to be a much more sensible language than English in that respect. The prevalence of euphemisms in English is, to me, utterly ridiculous. That, no doubt, is my Irish half talking....

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.

These euphemisms in English stem from how the language came to be.

As English was beginning to evolve into a single language incorporating both the language of the Saxons (who were, at the time, the peasant/serf class) and the language of the Normans (who were the upper class), with elements of the Latin of the educated class, different terms for the same thing began to evolve. If you wanted to sound vulgar, you used the peasant term ("shit"...which, like the Irish "cac," was the only word the Saxons had for the stuff). If you wanted to sound more refined (some would say "stuffy"), you used a word derived from Norman French: "excrement." And if you were being clinical, you used the Latin-derived "feces."

So now, when we're speaking to children, we're not sure what to do. "Shit" has become irretrievably vulgar in our culture. "Excrement" and "feces" sound too clinical. We're left with few options but to make up a "polite" term.

We see a lot of this kind of linguistic doublespeak in cooking and agricultural terms. For example, if you're speaking of the living animal (with which the peasant would have had to deal), you use the Saxon-derived: "cow," but if you're eating its meat (which would have been more available to the upper classes), you're eating the French-derived "beef." While "cow" wouldn't be considered a vulgar term in this context, it would seem odd if a waiter were to offer the the choice between "cow, ""pig" or "sheep" with your entree! Though, oddly, "chicken," "lamb," and "fish" seem to have escaped this trend!

Redwolf

the strangest thing is that in French we don't have specific words for the meat as opposed to the living animals. So in English it wouldn't offend me to hear I eat sheep, ox or deer or pig meat
I wonder why you have 2 series of words in English

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

It's because the French-derived words came to be associated with the upper classes, who were generally the ones who could afford to eat the animal, whereas the Saxon-derived words came to be associated with the animal itself. The French terms were considered more cultured. So the peasants raised "cows" and the masters ate "beef."

What I find interesting is that it isn't universal. You would sound odd ordering "sheep" in a restaurant (you'd use "mutton"), but if it's a young sheep you want, you'd sound perfectly normal ordering "lamb."

Redwolf

I know, but why? The upper classes may have used the same words... and in other languages (well, those I know), people use the same words for living animals and for meat.
For instance, in Brittany the nobility would speak French and everybody else would speak Breton, and in Breton we use the same words for living animals and for meat, we just add the word "kig" (meat) before - just as we add "(f)eoil" in Irish (caoireoil, mairteoil, muiceoil...)

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Interestingly, the EU has in some cases tried to alter the historical words in English. So, for example, you won't find "pork" mentioned in EU documents. Instead, it is "pig meat". They left beef alone, though. It's possible that the term "pig meat" was originally created for the uncooked meat being shipped from one place to another, but if so, then why not "cow meat" or "cattle meat" (to be less gender-oriented)?

Odd terminology like that arises in many situations, and it isn't always logical. In California, which produces a large share of the almonds in the US, the industry standard is to call them "amands" (slightly misspelled French term) while they are still on the tree, and then "almonds" when they are off the tree and being sold. Perhaps the earliest almond (or amand) growers here were French-speaking immigrants.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.

What I think is interesting is that this thread started by talking about shit and has worked its way backwards to precisely what name we should call the stuff that created the shit in the first place.
Not quite the intellectual discussion the rest of you were having. Continue on, please!

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