Not really. Some are the children of native speakers who grew up with parents speaking different dialects and with friends whose parents speak other dialects. This gives the possibility of a genuinely native but genuinely "different" dialect forming... but unfortunately there's a lot of non-native mixed into the pool in the Gaelic-medium primary.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

the same thing would happen if the same people lived in any other town. So there's nothing to do with Glasgow itself...

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Actually, Lughaidh, I think Niall beag is right. After all, there is an Australian dialect of English and a Quebecois dialect of French, which are native dialects that evolved amongst native speakers from a variety of regions of England (or France) in isolation from the mother country, but that is different from the Urban phenomenon which is more like the creolisation of English in Jamaica, etc., under the influence of a foreign language (or languages).

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

In Glasgow, is there a Gaelic-speaking community who speaks more or less the same dialect as you said, ie. when 2 parents speak a different dialect and when their friends speak other dialects etc? No, according to what you say, everybody speaks a different dialect or a mixture of different dialects, or no real dialect, so there's no homogeneity, so we can't say there's a Glasgow dialect of Gaelic.

Btw you can't compare what happens in one town where a small minority of speakers speak different dialects of a language while a huge majority speaks English, and a country like Australia which is a continent, or Québec which is a very big country. These are 2 completely different situations.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

There are Gaelic speakers in Glasgow who speak identifiable dialects. Some of these are immigrants, some of them are Glaswegian-born. But there are also Glasgow-born native speakers who speak dialects that are not readily identifiable with any island or Highland region.

It is well established that children are more influenced by the language of their peers than of their parents, so if you put together a bunch of children of different dialects of any given language in a playgroup or playground, you will eventually get a new dialect.


Yes you can, because no they aren't. It doesn't matter how many people there are in a speech community -- mixed language in results in mixed language out. If you look at the remaining (partially) Scottish Gaelic-speaking communities in Canada, you've got two types: the rural ones where a single dialect was retained (as the immigrants all came from a single island or valley in Scotland) or the urban ones where the dialect isn't readily identifiable with any particular area of Scotland.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

In Glasgow, is there a community of native Gaelic speakers who speak more or less the same way and in a way that has become specific to Glasgow?

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

To address Redwolf's original post, it's a topic I am interested in, for me Urban Irish would be Irish speakers outside the Gaeltacht who have been either raised with Irish in school or at home, thy would be the people who are speaking a form of Irish that is stabilising and becoming its own dialect, or creole as some have said. I also think Urban Irish is more than a dialect, I think there is a wider group including adult learners who aren't necessarily speaking the dialect of Urban Irish, but are part of the the wider community.

The second question, I have already given my opinion in another post, I think urban Irish is a positive development. If there were no speakers outside the Gaeltacht then Irish in my opinion would die in the next 100 years. The fact that Irish is growing in a new Urban way is positive and means the language will survive, although I know some of you would argue that once Gaeltact Irish dies then the language is dead anyway. I am just glad Irish in some form will be spoken into the future.

There is a standard English used for writin I think there should be a standard Irish. I don't write how I speak in my dialect of English. I also think that Urban Irish will end up becoming the natural standard of Irish as the Gaeltachtaí decline and Irish continues growing outside.

Since you asked for examples, here are some from someone you know.

The "Munster" versions on the following page were made by a non-native Urban speaker (unless it was a native Munsterman doing an extremely good impersonation of a school Irish speaker ):

http://www.irish-sayings.com/cats/seaso ... tricksday/

Note particularly that the r's in "tabhair", "Éireannach", "ar meisce" and "beoir" are not native Munster r's but English r's.

Fair play to him, though. It does appear that the same speaker has since made an effort to adopt the native phonemes into his speech and his more recent recordings are much better approximations of native Irish, though some of them still need a bit of work. (and grammar such as tá mé Éireannach* remains a little dodgy):

http://www.bitesizeirishgaelic.com/st-patricks-day/

Note how much better beoir and ar meisce sound in the more recent recordings.

It just goes to show you that even non-native speakers can pronounce the native sounds if they try.

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

I would always say, 'Is Éireannach mé' ie. using it as a noun, but I am wondering if Eireannach as an adjective could be used as above. It sounds wrong to me, but perhaps as an adjective it can be used like that? Just thought I'd throw my sub-standard Urbanite question into the pot..... :twisted:

_________________

Here's one example, its an Irish girl interviewing an Australian learner. Focus on the pronunciation of the Irish girl. The problem with broad and slender consonants is clear by the way she pronounces: "córas oideachais"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yNAscC1GTk

This one is fairly bad, though he admits it himself. Again, don't focus on the mistakes as such, but the pronunciation! Uploaded on Oct 28, 2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=zAX ... =endscreen

This is the same fella 6 years later, he's turned it into something completely satirical, its quite funny, but his pronunciation is probably more laughable! Uploaded on Feb 4, 2012! fair play to him though, at least he has an interest in the language!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNRUwtqpqa0

This is a lovely song "A Chomaraigh Aoibhinn Ó" being sung by Karen Casey. Its not to bad but the pronunciation is lacking somewhat at times, but not a bad effort either!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJWRkCfq1K0

Also anything to do with Hector Ó hEochagáin, nobody can doubt the tremendous positives he has brought to the language, he's great crack as well. But, he has poor pronunciation. He has excellent Spanish though !

Here's a lecture given by Professor Brian Ó Broin of William Paterson University (WPUNJ), Published on Mar 28, 2012. Its been on the forum before and it sparked a similar debate then, but I can't remember the name of the thread. Its just over an hour long. But its very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E-K9-GCJOk

"Professor Brian Ó Broin of William Paterson University (WPUNJ) giving a paper on the Urban Irish-language community to the Irish studies program at the University of Connecticut, Storrs on March 27th, 2012. Professor Ó Broin claims that the urban Irish-speaking community has grown noticeably in recent decades, but that several problems have arisen:
1) Second-language speakers are part-time speakers, often speaking a sophisticated pidgin. Their language activity often reflects a split cultural identity, whereby they readily take on a Gaelic identity for Irish-language events, but revert to English culture for day-to-day living.
2) A significant number of people are choosing to raise their children in Irish but, not being native speakers themselves, feel that they are facing significant parenting problems, having no experience of Irish as a home language themselves. Members of this community (and their children) are less likely to identify themselves as language enthusiasts, since the language is a normal vehicle of daily communication for them, but they are more likely to express worry about their linguistic standards, probably because they are more likely to find themselves in challenging linguistic situations (like discussing emotions, for example) than second-language speakers.

3) Urban Irish has a very different phonetic system than Gaeltacht Irish, being based on English. This has had the knock-on effect of causing a noticeable simplification of morphology. Syntactic findings remain provisional, but urban speakers *seem* to form non-standard subclauses more than Gaeltacht speakers. Urban speakers retain a sophisticated lexicon."

_________________

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice