It is currently Sat 06 Jun 2026 3:10 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 311 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 32  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2024 5:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1758
This is meaning 27 of "will" (of which "would" is the past tense) in the Oxford English Dictionary:

will, v. 1
 27. (Cf. 8.) Was (were) accustomed to; used to.

1848: Thackeray Van. Fair xxi, “The girls would ask her..for a little music, and she would sing her three songs.”
1915: W. Holt Beacon for Blind xxx. 307 “He would often return home exhausted from his work, and when Mrs. Fawcett read to him he would frequently fall fast asleep.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 16 Dec 2024 9:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 716
Location: Denver, Colorado
djwebb2021 wrote:
I thought you were going to read it with me as I provided notes, but as you are reading it by yourself, I will pursue my own studies.

is amuigh ar bhruach na habhann a dheinimis sinn fhéin a ní 'it's out on the bank of the river that we had to wash [them]

Reply: this is not "we had to wash them". Dheinimís SINN HÉIN a ní - we would wash OURSELVES. We don't always show the reflexive in English, so this could be "we would wash" or "we would have a wash".


Gaibh mo leithscéal, ní raibh sé sin air eolas agam. Níor shíleas ach go mbeadh tread poiblí ar siúl, as a bhféidir foghlaimeoirí éagsúla úsáid a bhaint as chuin a gcuid Gaelainne a dh'fheabhsú, ach tuigim go mbeadh sé sin deacair, toisc ná bíonn a lán foghlaimeoirí anseo go rialta.

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Dec 2024 8:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 716
Location: Denver, Colorado
Page 20

an choróin ráite 'the rosary prayed'
ná braitheadh an luch sibh níl ' fhios agam cad is brí leis seo, ' bhfuil ' fhios aig' éinne?
sa tseomra in CDh, as a rule, generally all preposition + singular article combinations cause eclipsis (with the possible exception of don [= do + an, which may cause lenition, more commonly in Cork and other areas than West Kerry), but sa, in the dialect, causes lenition to most consonants, with the exception of s-, to which it causes t prothesis (which is really just a form of lenition), and f- to which it causes eclipsis.
ar thaobh na leapan lenition after ar depends on the context/meaning of what is being said, presumably having to do with the bracketed construction when involving genitives. I found, written by P. Ó Laoghaire:

Quote:
Ar bruach na faraige, on the sea-shore
Ar bhruach na faraige, on the shore of the sea


So, going off what Ó Laoghaire says, this should mean 'on the side of the bed', as opposed to 'on the bedside'.
ag caint is a' féachaint, ag socrú an linbh agus ag síneadh ... here we see both ag and a' being used before verbal nouns (whereas in the standard just ag), which may just be an editorial inconsistency, as as far as I am aware the final -g is almost always lost in pronunciation in native speech when proceeding consonants.
leaba chluthair I believe this is either an alternative/dialectal form of the adjective (cluthar), or perhaps it's just an error.
Mo mháthair banrín an tí Here the copula has been omitted (i.e. <-- Isí ...).banrín is an alternative form of banríon.
gach aon chor curtha di aici 'she made every stir'?
geobhmaid = geobhaimíd, with a broad -m- instead of slender
an síol ná cuirfear ní bhainfear 'the seed that will not be sown will not be reaped'?

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Last edited by Séamus O'Neill on Mon 23 Dec 2024 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Dec 2024 9:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1972
Séamus O'Neill wrote:
ná braitheadh an luch sibh níl ' fhios agam cad is brí leis seo, ' bhfuil ' fhios aig' éinne?

Don’t let the mouse perceive/note you.

braitheadh 3rd person imperative = let (someone) perceive
ná … = don't let (someone) perceive

Quote:
gach aon chor curtha di aici 'she made every stir'?

every turn she made


Last edited by Labhrás on Mon 23 Dec 2024 9:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Dec 2024 9:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 716
Location: Denver, Colorado
Labhrás wrote:
Séamus O'Neill wrote:
ná braitheadh an luch sibh níl ' fhios agam cad is brí leis seo, ' bhfuil ' fhios aig' éinne?


Don’t let the mouse perceive/note you.

Quote:
gach aon chor curtha di aici 'she made every stir'?


every turn she made


Go raibh maith agat, a Labhráis.

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Dec 2024 10:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 716
Location: Denver, Colorado
Page 21-22

inniu: pronounced inniubh (/ɪˈnʲu̞βˠ/)
cimilt: dialectal form of cuimilt
ag baile Munster form of sa bhaile (could this be Béarlachas?)
Breill ar a bpus could this be some sort of curse?
buíochas: pronounced baochas (/bʷe̽ːxəsˠ/)
tá smut do na Johnsons ann. I think this could have multiple interpretations: 'he has the snout/expression of the Johnsons'
ag formhór dhe mhuintir Chorca Dhuibhne ' bhfuil ' fhios aig' éinne cad 'na thaobh go bhfuil 'dhe' á shéimhiú annso? B'fhéidir gur rud deifriúil é as a chanúint féin.
bhíodar a' d'iarraidh glór na teanga eile a chur inár gcluais a' d'iarraidh is a form of ag iarraidh which is found more often in Munster
aos: Munster form of aois, though I think that the standard form is also often found

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec 2024 5:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 716
Location: Denver, Colorado
Page 23

cait: a shortening of cliabhán cait?
tá aon phort amháin agat i gcónaí 'you're always harping on the same string', so ... agus gan aon phort agam ach 'Bridie Bridie': 'I only had [the tune of] [saying] Bridie Bridie'
Is cuimhin liom go soiléir 'I remember clearly'
Scartadh = scairteadh in the standard
Chugam pronounced chúm (/xuːmˠ/), along with other forms of the preposition: chúm, chút, chuige, chuice (~ chuici), chúinn, chúibh, chuca (chucu). Thus they are often spelt chugham, chughat, etc.
Gamhain 'calf'
Searrach 'colt'
what does fineacht mean in the sentence Bhí sé deacair fineacht díreach in airde i gcónaí, an dtuigeann tú?
níl aon laghdú tagtha air 'there has been no reduction onto it
baclainn 'bent arm'
mo fhear pronounced as m'fhear, as it is spelled in the standard
Canathaobh pronunciation spelling of Cad ina thaobh, 'why' in Munster Irish (cén fáth in the standard)
Raghad, rithfead first person singular future tense conjugation. Generally only used in Munster Irish and thus not found in the standard
éiríonn pronounced eighríonn (/ɐiˈɹ̝ʲiːᵊn̪ˠ/)

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec 2024 6:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 716
Location: Denver, Colorado
Page 24

tá drochbhlas ar seo should be tá drochbhlas air seo, as in Irish the preposition always has to be declined for the third person when followed by a demonstrative. This is an unfamiliar concept in English, so learners are often prone to making such mistakes as writing *le seo instead of leis seo, ar seo instead of air seo, etc., especially as they would be pronounced nearly identically either way.
Tagann ciall le haois 'sense comes with age'. There is a very similar sean-fhocal: Ní thagann ciall roim aois 'sense does not come before age'. Here we can also see the use of the standard aois, instead of aos as seen earlier, which could either be a editorial inconsistency or just a prominence of both forms in the speaker's ideolect.
líon tí 'household'[/i]
san am chéanna 'at the same time' (ag an am céanna in the standard, with am as a masculine noun)
Bhéarfadh sé ar láimh orm here we see a solidified construction in which the use of orm is somewhat redundant, indicating the person being affected by the action 'he would take me by the hand'
thairis, normally the third person singular masculine form of thar, but also the form of the preposition used before the article
spreota dairí 'a length of oaks' ?
fuiriste 'easy' (furasta in the standard)
coirce 'oats'
go daingean 'solidly'
cad tá siad a' déanamh? 'What are they doing?' I think that in Munster generally constructions such as Cad 'tá á dhéanamh aca? would be more common.
Bhínn mar dhia ag léimeadh leis na huain 'I would pretend to be jumping with the sheep/lambs'
Téanam ort 'let's go' to one person, plural is téanaidh (~ téanaig) oraibh
ag tógaint isteach na hálainne seems like Béarlachas to me. Does anyone else know of another way to say 'taking in'?
caisearbhán 'dandelion'
buachalán buí 'ragweed'
fearbán féir 'buttercup'
méaracán gorm 'bluebell'
feochadán 'thistle'
nóinín 'daisy'

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec 2024 8:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1972
Séamus O'Neill wrote:
Page 24

tá drochbhlas ar seo should be tá drochbhlas air seo, as in Irish the preposition always has to be declined for the third person when followed by a demonstrative. This is an unfamiliar concept in English, so learners are often prone to making such mistakes as writing *le seo instead of leis seo, ar seo instead of air seo, etc., especially as they would be pronounced nearly identically either way.

No, I’d think that is too generalizing.
It is correct that 3rd person forms are used very often. They are the norm.
But you can use seo (and sin/siúd) without a personal pronoun (i.e. seo instead of é/í seo). This has a slightly different meaning: less specific, more general in its reference.
And because you can use seo on its own you can use simple prepositions with seo: ar seo instead of air seo – with the same difference in meaning.

Quote:
Tagann ciall le haois 'sense comes with age'. There is a very similar sean-fhocal: Ní thagann ciall roim aois 'sense does not come before age'. Here we can also see the use of the standard aois, instead of aos as seen earlier, which could either be a editorial inconsistency or just a prominence of both forms in the speaker's ideolect.

It is dative case:
nominative aos, genitive aoise, dative aois

Quote:
Bhéarfadh sé ar láimh orm here we see a solidified construction in which the use of orm is somewhat redundant, indicating the person being affected by the action 'he would take me by the hand'

The verb here is beir ar – "to catch", so ar/orm is necessary:
He would catch me by the hand.

(btw: ar láimh again dative case)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec 2024 9:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1758
1. san am chéanna 'at the same time' (ag an am céanna in the standard, with am as a masculine noun)

This isn't an instance of using "am" as a feminine noun. This is an instance of lenition in the dative, which is hit and miss anyway. Peadar Ua Laoghaire had "san am gcéanna", with eclipsis of the adjective in this phrase. See also "ar an gcuma gcéanna".

2. I don't see "ar seo" as correct at all. But here's the thing: "ar seo" and "air seo" would be pronounced the same (r before slender s is normally broad: do labhair sé has a broad r in pronunciation). This may explain a failure to spell it correctly.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 311 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 32  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 876 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group