Sorry, but most tattoos do actually result in scarring. Techniques have improved, and a really good tattooist may not cause any noticeable scarring, but most people who are heavily inked will be able to point out a mixture of deep scarring and surface scarring on their bodies.


... and you don't see me posting negative comments in tattoo threads. And more to the point, this is not a tattoo thread. There are plenty of places where such people would become the butt of a joke in their own threads, but this doesn't happen here. So a few of us decided to blow off a little steam in this thread... so what?

Welcome to the post-Facebook internet-- seriously, it's not "this forum" vs "the old one", it's every forum now vs 5 years ago, because when forums were our habitual online hangouts, posting was as much about socialising as information exchange whereas now we socialise on Facebook and go to forums purely to discuss information.


Anyone offering a translation should. Help given unquestioningly can be no help at all. On another forum, someone was asking for a tattoo translation to commemorate her dead baby. One forum member decided to engage in a brief dialogue, and then pointed out that one of her best friends was a grief counsellor and that standard advice is never to make any permanent decisions within the first year after bereavement. I seem to recall that the other woman took it quite well, but of course there are many instances where questions have been answered with "none of your business, just give me a translation," which obviously didn't work out too well for the requester...

I've helped people with translations in the past (although not in Irish, cos I barely know any), but only when I've known it's going to be used in a way where any mistakes are acceptable -- I don't do headstones and I don't do tattoos.

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

Or rather you don't see me posting flames or trolls in tattoo threads. You might see me posting advice or suggestions that are negative (mostly "it won't be the same thing once it's translated"), but they're still a constructive part of the conversation.

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

I for one think that anything who wants to engage with the Irish language is welcome here. Our membership have come from many different countries and for very different reasons. The one things that brings us together is Irish and that's really cool. I'm not on Facebook, Twitter or any other forum. Other than e-mail, this is my only online indulgence. I want it to be friendly, respectful and a bit of craic (but not by targeting anyone which can occasionally happen.)

+Btw, I didn't know that pennyrat started out by seeking a tattoo translation, but I am glad he decided to hang around!

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Exactly. We weren't taking the mickey out of anybody in particular. Just a bit of banter like we used to have on IGTF.


I'm all for meaningful tattoos. Some of them are beautiful (in text and/or image). But some are ridiculous too (but like Niall said we never point that out to people in tattoo request threads).
I've been thinking of getting one myself, probably in the less meaningful category.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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That's OK for now, but I've seen forums killed off by the volume of requests. There was one forum that was supposed to be about discussing public services in the Highland region in Scottish Gaelic, and it received over a page's worth of translation requests, mostly for tattoos, per day. The forum was utterly paralysed as all productive discussion was crowded out of the front page and impossible to find. This forum currently comes up at number 6 on Google if I search for irish tattoo translation... as a general rule you're OK until you hit the number 3 spot.

Besides, what good does mere "contact" do the language? The number of requests out there would support several professional translators. Isn't it true that one of the big problems any minority language faces is that it offers no economic advantages? So generating work for natives would be a good thing, wouldn't it?

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

A few valid points here. One of the benefits of the old place (and there were a lot of tattoo requests there) was that a few learners at various stages offered their possibilities for the translation and then the more knowledgeable members 'corrected' them and offered explanations. We do not receive that level of tattoo requests here - yet - but they can provide valuable learning opportunities.

I would love if native speakers could earn an income from such requests, but my guess is that most of those requesting short translations are unlikely to ever go that route and will go to the Internet. If well-run forums don't provide quality translations, then there will be plenty of others who will provide awful stuff. Pros and cons I guess.

One of the benefits of the way Breandán set up ILF is that he asked that tattoo requests would be identified as such in the thread title. That way only those who wanted to access the thread would have to.

I like the diversity of ILF even though I ignore some of the stuff posted, but I recognise that everything is of interest to somebody.

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Most of the requests you see here are so short that a translation would cost less than they'll be paying the tattooist -- there used to be a couple of translators who used Paypal for tattoo translations at £20 a pop. If someone's not willing to pay that for a professional job, no-one else owes them anything.

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

Exactly! It took me a long time to realise that the tattoo requests really help to keep a forum lively.

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賢いふくろぐま
Seans Eile - free software to help you practice your Irish
Scéala na Wombait - Muddle-headed Memes and Musings

They do, actually! AND we have had people who originally came to us asking for a short translation for a tattoo who ended up sticking around and adding to the life of the forum (pennyrat is one obvious example).

For my first two years of learning Irish, I cut my teeth on attempting tattoo translations at the old place. The input I received from more advanced learners was priceless...pure gold.

If a forum doesn't want to be bothered by tattoo requests, all they really have to do is state that up-front. There's a forum at Chiff & Fipple for discussing Irish, and they make it very clear that tattoo translations won't be handled there (in fact, they have a link directing them here). If someone posts a tattoo request anyway, the post is locked and the individual directed here. No big deal.

I'm glad this forum has decided not to take that approach, however.

I don't know if diversity is an "Americanism" (I rather doubt it), but as I see it, it's a good thing regardless of where the idea came from.

Redwolf

I wrote this about tattoos almost exactly a year ago. As it goes into some of the "whys" of Irish tattoos, it seems worth trotting out again:

http://www.bitesizeirishgaelic.com/blog ... ic-tattoo/