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PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013 3:18 pm 
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Location: Maryland, United States
I was curious if someone could direct me to an explanation of the use of certain letters as predicates to certain words and their appearance in certain words on some occasions. I have not really been able to identify a pattern, though, in some cases it appears phonetic, in some cases it appears to depend upon subject gender and singularity v. plurality. I believe I'm referring to "standard Irish," but in any event I use RS.

Here are some examples:

Tá a gcuid leabhar á léamh acu...Ta a chuid ceapairí á n-ithe acu.
Why the g in the first instance and the h in the second? Why the n before ithe?

Cailín agus a tuismitheorí...Cailíní agus a dtuismitheorí.
Why the d when the subjects are plural?

Cailín agus capall...garda agus a chapall
Why the a when its garda but not cailín? Why the h?

There are hundreds of examples like this but this is a good start I figure. Can someone either give me a quick explanation or direct me to a source?

Thanks!

Will


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PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013 3:32 pm 
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Hello:

http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/artikel.htm#deklination

http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/lenition.htm

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013 6:01 pm 
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The links Lughaidh gave you will give you a good overview of what patterns to look out for, but I wouldn't advise trying to learn it all at once. My advice is to pick one structure at a time and practice using it with different vocabulary. For example:

A thuismitheoirí / his parents (lenition)
A tuismitheoirí / her parents
A dtuismitheoirí / their parents (eclipsis)

A chapall / his horse (lenition)
A capall / her horse (nothing)
A gcapall / their horse (eclipsis)

When you've practiced it a lot, it will start to come naturally without you having to think about it. Then you can move on and start practicing another grammar point.

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PostPosted: Thu 10 Oct 2013 11:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat 17 Sep 2011 11:52 pm
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The Merry Ploughboy wrote:
I was curious if someone could direct me to an explanation of the use of certain letters as predicates to certain words and their appearance in certain words on some occasions. I have not really been able to identify a pattern, though, in some cases it appears phonetic, in some cases it appears to depend upon subject gender and singularity v. plurality. I believe I'm referring to "standard Irish," but in any event I use RS.

Here are some examples:

Tá a gcuid leabhar á léamh acu...Ta a chuid ceapairí á n-ithe acu.
Why the g in the first instance and the h in the second? Why the n before ithe?

Cailín agus a tuismitheorí...Cailíní agus a dtuismitheorí.
Why the d when the subjects are plural?

Cailín agus capall...garda agus a chapall
Why the a when its garda but not cailín? Why the h?

There are hundreds of examples like this but this is a good start I figure. Can someone either give me a quick explanation or direct me to a source?

Thanks!

Will



Tá a gcuid leabhar á léamh acu = They are reading their books.
Tá a chuid ceapairí á n-ithe acu. = They are eating his sandwiches.
Tá a cuid ceapairí á n-ithe acu = They are eating her sandwiches.
Tá na ceapairí á n-ithe = The sandwiches are being eaten.
Tá a gcuid ceapairí á n-ithe acu = They are eating their sandwiches.

Cailín agus a tuismitheoirí = a girl and her parents
Buachaill agus a thuismitheoirí = A boy and his parents
a dtuismitheoirí = their parents
ár dtuismitheoirí = our parents
(most times 'na tuismitheoirí' is said = 'the parents' with the context being understood)

the same applies to
a chapall = his horse
a capall = her horse
a gcapall = their horse
ár gcapall = our horse
etc.

There is a certain Wombat on this forum who is an absolute star at explaining all of this - there's where I'd start, a chara.
Mick has it explained already, so I am sorry for the cross!!

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Bí cinnte de go nglacfaidh triúr le gach aistriúchán a thabharfar.
Be sure to get three in agreement with a translation given.


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PostPosted: Fri 11 Oct 2013 9:17 am 
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Joined: Tue 08 Oct 2013 12:35 pm
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Location: Maryland, United States
Thanks all!


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PostPosted: Fri 11 Oct 2013 11:54 pm 
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If you are interested in the historical "why" for such changes, as opposed to the modern "when" and "how", check out this link, where I reproduced some background info I had collected from posts on the forum and other sources:
http://irishlearner.awyr.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2249&p=20329&hilit=sindos#p20329

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Oct 2013 11:37 am 
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Joined: Tue 08 Oct 2013 12:35 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Maryland, United States
Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Tue 15 Oct 2013 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue 08 Oct 2013 12:35 pm
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Location: Maryland, United States
So then, for example:

"Dath glas atá ar an gcistin."

Why the g? Chistin is kitchen; is this declension? "Color green is on the kitchen."


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PostPosted: Tue 15 Oct 2013 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat 18 Aug 2012 11:43 pm
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Location: Nua Mheicsiceo
The Merry Ploughboy wrote:
Why the g? Chistin is kitchen; is this declension? "Color green is on the kitchen."


This explains it all for ya:

http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/eklipse.htm


*edit: By the way, cistin is kitchen
cistin – kitchen
an chistin – the kitchen
ar an gcistin – on the kitchen

Just letting you know :)


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PostPosted: Wed 16 Oct 2013 1:36 am 
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Joined: Tue 08 Oct 2013 12:35 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Maryland, United States
WeeFalorieMan wrote:
The Merry Ploughboy wrote:
Why the g? Chistin is kitchen; is this declension? "Color green is on the kitchen."


This explains it all for ya:

http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/eklipse.htm


*edit: By the way, cistin is kitchen
cistin – kitchen
an chistin – the kitchen
ar an gcistin – on the kitchen

Just letting you know :)


Well, that's why I ask.


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