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PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2016 5:01 pm 
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Location: An Chathair Bhreá
dia daoibh,

Ní fhaca mé an friotal seo ariamh. "idir dhá thine Bhealtaine" in a dilemma. I get the literal translation but why does it mean "in a dilemma"? I get it is an idiom and what not but was curious as to whether anyone knew the history behind it. I think it's a cool phrase.

GRMA


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PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2016 5:08 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
Cliathach wrote:
dia daoibh,

Ní fhaca mé an friotal seo ariamh. "idir dhá thine Bhealtaine" in a dilemma. I get the literal translation but why does it mean "in a dilemma"? I get it is an idiom and what not but was curious as to whether anyone knew the history behind it. I think it's a cool phrase.

GRMA


It's the Irish equivalent of "between a rock and a hard place," or "between the devil and the deep blue sea." If you have fire on one side of you and fire on the other, which ever way you leap will be equally bad!

The history behind it has to do with the practice of driving cattle between the fires kindled on Oíche Bhealtaine (and also on Oíche Shamhna, I believe) as a way of blessing them. You'll still see the fires on the hilltops on those nights (as well as on St. John's Eve), but I don't know if they still drive livestock between them these days.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Tue 24 May 2016 5:16 pm 
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I've read that there's also another theory for the meaning, which is that it refers to when Patrick and the Druids competed with one another on one Bealtaine eve to show whose god(s) was/were more powerful, offering sacrifices on opposite hills, and Patrick's god was said to have won (I forget how that was supposedly indicated, maybe by what happened with the smoke). So it might also refer to having to choose between the old ways and the new religion (i.e., being "on the horns of a dilemma"). However, this whole theory may just be a later Christian gloss on what was already an established phrase meaning what Red said, and who knows whether that sacrifice duel ever really happened?

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Wed 25 May 2016 12:03 pm 
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Iontach. Go raibh maith agaibh :good:


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