Slender R:

1. Tapped next to another slender consonant.

2. Fricative elsewhere.

Broad R:

1. Fricative at start of a word (this can sound very like the English r)

2. Tapped elsewhere.

Important Sandhi rule (makes things much easier to pronounce):
Slender r at the end of a word is pronounced as broad r, if the next word starts with r,d,t,n,l or s.

For example: Ní foláir dom => Ní folár dom.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

If irish had been left to it's own devices, it might have continued to extend grammatical functions by single sounds rather than whole morphemes (broad/slender synthetic ending (A bhuí le Dia na bhfeart go bhfeiceam vs. féachaim) -I know these examples are a bit anachronistic and cut over moods, but still))


As a Leitrim man, I'd hate to credit a Rossie with anything, tho, I'll admit I would have made a fine national language if history had been different. It's also mad to think how exotic Irish is in its own way -you don't need to head into a jungle to find unvoiced liquids, initial mutation, dual contrasting consonants, conjugated prepositions, VSO, dual numbering, verbal impersonal, base-twenty counting...while found in places all over the world, unusual for Europe for the given mix. If more knew about this, Irish would be seen with newer eyes


There are people in Breifne who have that in their English, and in one of the maps on the Dialect/Kingdoms thread shows that too. Where does the info come from? Some Conemara speakers had it too, and so had somewhere else, tho I can't recall where, nor where I read it (some PDF paper off the net, I think)


I don't but I want to know what it was like. Its loss introduced an asymmetry into the system which used to annoy me! I'd love if Lughaidh or Breandan would make an attempt at it! The description of what it was possibly like in O'Quiggin's book make it sound to me like a slender r make from the same tongue position as 'j' (and /N'/ and /L'/ sounds) and that would make it a kind of z-sound, and that is what confuses me.

I've read that the z phoneme was originally lost as it conflicted with the voiced dental fricative. Since there were two of them that would lead to a lot of competition for not all to dissimilar sounds (s, s', z, (z') t, d, th, th', dh, dh', r' and R'), so it might just have had to have been dropped for salience reasons


The Ring data with its treatment of r-sounds shows just how much variety there was in Irish. Pity most of its gone now

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__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___

'Bhfuil a fhios ag mórán a labhrann i nGaeilge go rialta go mbíonn sé chomh teicniúil sin. Difríochtaí sa gcaoi a ndeireadh an fear agus an bhean an rud céanna! Tuigim go dtarlaíonn a leithéid sa bPolainnis ach níor thug mé faoi deara ariamh i nGaeilge é. Is minic a chuala mé 'ní foláir dhuit...' agus an 'r' ráite ar bhealach 'caol'. Is iontach an t-eolas atá á léiriú agaibh faoin ábhar seo agus tógfaidh sé tamall fada dom a leath de a thuiscint... más rud é go dtuigfidh mé go deo é. GRMMA ar aon chaoi as an eolas.

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Bí cinnte de go nglacfaidh triúr le gach aistriúchán a thabharfar.
Be sure to get three in agreement with a translation given.

Nach bhfuil na hintinní is fearr anseo?!, lol

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__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___

Tá a fhios acu gan amhras i gan fhios dóibh! Deinid siad na fuaimnithe thuas go cruinn gan aon smaoineamh, ach nuair a tánn tú id fhoghlaimeoir maol (mar mise) bíonn an t-IPA agus mínithe teicnicúla 'na gcúnamh ana-mhaith agat.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

b'fhéidir go scríobhfadh duine éigin leabhar ar a dtugtar 'Zen and the Art of the the slender R'...

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__̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.___