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 Post subject: Ar + Cúl in phrases.
PostPosted: Thu 20 Nov 2025 4:16 am 
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Hi all.

Can anybody tell me more about the difference in usage between ar chúl and ar gcúl? Is it just that the latter implies motion, i.e. "backwards" as opposed to "back"?

In general speech I'd expect to see ar chúl with the meaning "at the back", but Teanglann gives the examples duine a choinneáil ar gcúl "to keep somebody back", and i bhfad ar gcúl "far back".

Also, is there any dialectal variation in the distinction?

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Thu 20 Nov 2025 9:21 am 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
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Ade wrote:
Hi all.

Can anybody tell me more about the difference in usage between ar chúl and ar gcúl? Is it just that the latter implies motion, i.e. "backwards" as opposed to "back"?

In general speech I'd expect to see ar chúl with the meaning "at the back", but Teanglann gives the examples duine a choinneáil ar gcúl "to keep somebody back", and i bhfad ar gcúl "far back".

Also, is there any dialectal variation in the distinction?

Thanks in advance.

I don't know anything about dialectal variation on this. But in Peadar Ua laoghaire's works, ar chúl cínn accounts for most uses of ar chúl, meaning "by the scruff of the neck", but ar gcúl means postponed, turned back, left behind, etc.


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PostPosted: Thu 20 Nov 2025 10:41 am 
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Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 496
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Ade wrote:
Hi all.

Can anybody tell me more about the difference in usage between ar chúl and ar gcúl? Is it just that the latter implies motion, i.e. "backwards" as opposed to "back"?

In general speech I'd expect to see ar chúl with the meaning "at the back", but Teanglann gives the examples duine a choinneáil ar gcúl "to keep somebody back", and i bhfad ar gcúl "far back".

Also, is there any dialectal variation in the distinction?

Thanks in advance.

I don't know anything about dialectal variation on this. But in Peadar Ua laoghaire's works, ar chúl cínn accounts for most uses of ar chúl, meaning "by the scruff of the neck", but ar gcúl means postponed, turned back, left behind, etc.


He uses ar gcúl rather than ag gcúl for postponed?

That's interesting, thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu 20 Nov 2025 11:25 am 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1725
Ade wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Ade wrote:
Hi all.

Can anybody tell me more about the difference in usage between ar chúl and ar gcúl? Is it just that the latter implies motion, i.e. "backwards" as opposed to "back"?

In general speech I'd expect to see ar chúl with the meaning "at the back", but Teanglann gives the examples duine a choinneáil ar gcúl "to keep somebody back", and i bhfad ar gcúl "far back".

Also, is there any dialectal variation in the distinction?

Thanks in advance.

I don't know anything about dialectal variation on this. But in Peadar Ua laoghaire's works, ar chúl cínn accounts for most uses of ar chúl, meaning "by the scruff of the neck", but ar gcúl means postponed, turned back, left behind, etc.


He uses ar gcúl rather than ag gcúl for postponed?

That's interesting, thanks.


Yes, but i think it is a calcified old form inherited from previous centuries of Irish. I don't know Middle Irish and so don't know the explanation.


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PostPosted: Thu 20 Nov 2025 4:42 pm 
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It is ar gcúl as a standalone phrase (used as an adverb: backwards)
but ar chúl with any nominal addition (used as a preposition: behind):
ar chúl mo chinn, ar chúl scéithe, ar chúl na gréine, ar chúl an tí, etc.


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