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PostPosted: Tue 05 Mar 2024 1:49 am 
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Indeed. He does sound bloody amazing.


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PostPosted: Tue 05 Mar 2024 11:57 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
galaxyrocker wrote:
iambullivant wrote:
A supplemental question if I may: Do Fuaimeanna.ie and Teanglann.ie have the same or separate challenges when it comes to reliability?



Fuaimeanna is better in general as Teanglann sometimes has weaker speakers for some words. But both use fully recorded audio, not AI.


Yes and Dara Ó Cinnéide's pronunciation on fuaimeanna is really the gold standard for Munster...


That's good to hear. I like the way that Fuaimeanna.ie is laid out. In my limited experience it seems to me that the IPA representation of the sounds is more accurate on Fuaimeanna than other places where the IPA representation sounds nothing like it when I plug it into something like http://ipa-reader.xyz/ .


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Apr 2025 1:47 pm 
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I'd give one caveat about Saol ó Dheas - while the presenters have beautiful Irish, the guests may not always do.
So until you feel confident to tell native and non-native Irish apart, best to stick to learning pronunciation/intonation of the presenters.

There are lots of options though - at the minute it's Sláine Ní Chathalláin, and before she started I think it was Dara ó Cinnéide for a month or two just after Helen Ní Shé retired in December or so.
You can't go wrong with any of the three really - and there must be years and years of Helen you can listen to on rnag.ie.

Also - Sláine has a book out atm called Nain with an entire audiobook of her reading it available on Spotify.
The Irish in it isn't hard to follow and she doesn't talk particularly quickly - it's also legit Kerry Irish.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Apr 2025 2:14 pm 
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Personally, I miss Dara Ó Cinnéide. Sláine Ní Chathalláin has learned the dialect well, but I doubt that she is a native speaker, as there are many mispronunciations in her Irish, namely she pronounced r as the English approxomant instead of the native Irish tap.

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Apr 2025 2:33 pm 
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I think some/many native speakers in the Munster Gaeltacht are using the English r, and so I wouldn't go so far as to say she can't be a native speaker. Maybe her Irish isn't the same as her Nan's....


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Apr 2025 7:57 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
I think some/many native speakers in the Munster Gaeltacht are using the English r, and so I wouldn't go so far as to say she can't be a native speaker. Maybe her Irish isn't the same as her Nan's....

Yes I think this is the case. I've often heard very good native speakers on the younger side (both in Galway and Kerry) use english r's when trying to speak articulately or slowly and then tap them when talking at pace.
Given that Sláine was reading the news for a long while before taking over Saol ó Dheas, I wonder has the news-reader style of talking bled over into her general presentation style, making her try be more articulate.

Séamus O'Neill wrote:
Personally, I miss Dara Ó Cinnéide. Sláine Ní Chathalláin has learned the dialect well, but I doubt that she is a native speaker, as there are many mispronunciations in her Irish, namely she pronounced r as the English approxomant instead of the native Irish tap.

Out of curiosity do you have some examples of this? Or do any come to mind?
Not trying to catch you out or doubt you, genuinely curious what these may be.

As an example of something similar, I've heard her pronounce caillte as caillte (as opposed to caillhe).
Which is interesting, as in her book she has some audio of her nan talking, and the nan retains the caillhe pronounciation.
I don't think this is an example of "incorrect" Irish though, maybe something that schooling through "standard Irish" had taken out of her Irish.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Apr 2025 11:11 pm 
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Quote:
Out of curiosity do you have some examples of this? Or do any come to mind?
Not trying to catch you out or doubt you, genuinely curious what these may be.

As an example of something similar, I've heard her pronounce caillte as caillte (as opposed to caillhe).
Which is interesting, as in her book she has some audio of her nan talking, and the nan retains the caillhe pronounciation.
I don't think this is an example of "incorrect" Irish though, maybe something that schooling through "standard Irish" had taken out of her Irish.


I mostly meant that she can sometimes substitute traditional Irish phonology for English sounds, giving her a bit more of a gallda accent. Pronouncing the t in caillte definitely isn't wrong, in fact, there are many speakers of CDh Irish that still maintain this pronunciation, especially the closer you get to Dún Chaoin. Personally, I haven't heard any speakers from the Blasket (including Peig Sayers) pronouncing it as lth, and that is personally how I pronounce it.

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Apr 2025 12:01 am 
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gallda /gaulə/


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Apr 2025 10:23 am 
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iambullivant wrote:
Ade wrote:
iambullivant wrote:
So https://www.abair.tcd.ie/ga/synthesis has replaced the 'engines' it previously used to generate speech with 'AI' and something called 'Bunta'. I am not not sure how I feel about that. I am very sceptical about LLMs and their problems with hallucination. I appreciate that speech generation AI is not an LLM but I do wonder if the AI hype is overblown.

I'd be curious if any of the fluent/native speakers on here think that the change is generating a more accurate rendition of the speech. I assume that the people at TCD think that it does.


It's a very interesting area of research but it's not without its downsides. As for whether the research team at TCD think the AI model is currently more accurate than the earlier speech synthesis engines, I think probably not. I imagine the benefit of it to them is that they don't have to manually tweak the AI model as you would with a rule-based model (which I expect is how the earlier engines worked).

The thing about AI speach synthesis is that it's only as good as the data which is available to train it. These things need a lot of data (recordings of native speakers mapped to written text), and it needs to be good quality data. Unfortunately, good quality recordings can be difficult to get for Irish. Native speakers have better things to do than sit around making and transcribing recordings of themselves, and a lot of people are uncomfortable with recordings of them being used to train AI anyhow (just look at the trouble Apple have with Siri, and they have millions of users). I suspect the AI model the TCD team are using is pretty good, but where you get weird examples of words it doens't pronounce well, it's probably because they don't have sufficient pronunciation data for that character sequence to train the model on.

The upside is that, as more speech data becomes available over time, improving the model should be as easy as running a script to retrain on the new data. The downside is that it's impossible to know when enough data may become available for training this kind of model to the point that we can safely say it's better than the synthesis engines they originally used. I think moving to an AI model was probably the right choice. It's certainly the forward-thinking approach to take. But it may have been just a little premature.


That's very interesting, thank you. I understand what you are saying about the challenges around the training sets for Irish.

As an L1/L2 learner without a teacher I use Abair a lot to try and grasp the pronunciation of words and phrases, particularly where Munster and Connacht diverge from each other and an Caighdeán. I find Abair useful because Teanglann.ie doesn't have the verb conjugations.

The question is: can I currently rely on Abair being reasonably accurate most of the time for both dialects or am I learning 'bad' Irish if I rely on it too much?

To put it another way: is Abair a genuinely a useful tool for learners or 'just' an interesting academic experiment? Not that there is anything wrong with interesting academic experiments.


Thanks everybody for the interesting recent replies to this post. Obviously, I meant A1/A2 learner not L1/L2. My confusion shows how much of newbie I am. :D


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Aug 2025 8:28 am 
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That's a good suggestion, Meghan. Thank you!


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