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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Mon 21 Apr 2025 12:45 pm 
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In the first sentence of https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23, Breandán Feiritéar from Dunquin says "cá saolaíodh tu héin" but it sounds like "cá laíodh". Is it normal to drop a syllable in this?


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Mon 21 Apr 2025 1:13 pm 
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Just looking at https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23 now. Of course, the odd mistake is normal, but Feargas is noted as meaning Fearg mé, when in fact it is the name Fearghus. Maybe they did a global search for -as and replaced it by mé?


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Mon 21 Apr 2025 3:24 pm 
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beepbopboop wrote:
Tbh, from listening to the radio now or historical audio I find that native Munster Irish speakers interchangeably use tapped and rolled r's for broad r's, regardless or position, lenited/unlenited etc. - and as the pace of speech increases, I find that they tend to roll more.
I also think you're more likely to get a roll in between vowels e.g. in something like "mar a bhí" while a single tap (broad or slender) is probably more likely immediately after a consonant e.g. priocadh or crann.
I'd guess that if you were to fully roll every broad r, a native speaker wouldn't find that too unusual.


I don't know if it's in any way connected, but I once had a teacher from Dublin, an older woman, who would roll her r's - when speaking English - for emphasis. I don't know if this is a common feature of Hiberno/Irish English.

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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Mon 21 Apr 2025 3:29 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Yes, as you say do bhíomair has a tap and do bhíúir and do bhíodar have a trill.

An Loíngseach is not a native speaker, as far as I know... His English accent is extremely belaboured as if he were an L2 speaker of it, but I think some people in Kerry speak like that even though they only speak English?


Some Kerrymen, especially those from rural areas, have very thick accents, often substituting native Irish phonemes for English ones, so I would say that he has a typical rural Kerry accent. Oftentimes I have an easier time understanding Kerrymen's Irish than their English. There's a video on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Q47CuQX0gn8), where you can see this. The speaker clearly says An gcíonn tú é? Ansan suas. 'San suas a bhíodar., but his English was basically gibberish to me until I found a video with subtitles.

I think one thing that might cause confusion is the fact that the Irish r can be devoiced at the end of a word/phrase. Slender r can also be pronounced as [ɹ̝ʲ], which is closer to an approximant than a tap (and, among younger speakers, broad r is often pronounced like English r, i.e. [ɹ]), so given the resonant characteristic of this/these phoneme(s), it may sound more like a trilled r, and devoicing, obviously would just make it more ambiguous.

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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Mon 21 Apr 2025 3:41 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
In the first sentence of https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23, Breandán Feiritéar from Dunquin says "cá saolaíodh tu héin" but it sounds like "cá laíodh". Is it normal to drop a syllable in this?


I think that the very beginning of the recording just got cut off.

djwebb2021 wrote:
Just looking at https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23 now. Of course, the odd mistake is normal, but Feargas is noted as meaning Fearg mé, when in fact it is the name Fearghus. Maybe they did a global search for -as and replaced it by mé?


I think that it could have been due to a global search. It also could have been transcribed by someone who just wasn't paying attention to the meaning of the words/didn't have a great understanding of Munster Irish. The site is very new, Eoghan Ó Raghallaigh told me about it in February before it was even released, so there are bound to be mistakes. I assume that there are people reviewing the transcriptions and correcting any mistakes they may see.

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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Mon 21 Apr 2025 4:44 pm 
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https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23

Fear urrúis: does this mean security guard? (this may have entailed more than just patrolling in 1916 when there was a revolution, later blossoming into a civil war on, so not exactly the same thing as being a security guard for a supermarket - but I'm asking about the meaning of the word)

Cliathar ar mo stoca: if this isn't just a stitch, maybe it is a patch for a larger whole?

Guthanna a thúirt: to make speeches, or maybe in the context of this talk, "to cast votes" in the general election?

Are my assumptions right here?>


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Mon 21 Apr 2025 9:34 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23

Fear urrúis: does this mean security guard? (this may have entailed more than just patrolling in 1916 when there was a revolution, later blossoming into a civil war on, so not exactly the same thing as being a security guard for a supermarket - but I'm asking about the meaning of the word)

Cliathar ar mo stoca: if this isn't just a stitch, maybe it is a patch for a larger whole?

Guthanna a thúirt: to make speeches, or maybe in the context of this talk, "to cast votes" in the general election?

Are my assumptions right here?>


Is ea.

The word cliathar/cliathach in this sense is simply cliath in FGB
https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/cliath
cliath (ar stoca) - (patch of) darning (on stocking),


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Mon 21 Apr 2025 10:06 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23

Fear urrúis: does this mean security guard? (this may have entailed more than just patrolling in 1916 when there was a revolution, later blossoming into a civil war on, so not exactly the same thing as being a security guard for a supermarket - but I'm asking about the meaning of the word)

Cliathar ar mo stoca: if this isn't just a stitch, maybe it is a patch for a larger whole?

Guthanna a thúirt: to make speeches, or maybe in the context of this talk, "to cast votes" in the general election?

Are my assumptions right here?>


Is ea.

The word cliathar/cliathach in this sense is simply cliath in FGB
https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/cliath
cliath (ar stoca) - (patch of) darning (on stocking),


Thank you. The audio is unclear there - and he may have just said cliath. This looks like a good site.


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Wed 23 Apr 2025 1:53 am 
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https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23

Cogadh Cathartha - civil war - the speaker from CD who is interviewing the one from Muskerry pronounces this Coga Catharga. I think it should be Catharha, right?


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Wed 23 Apr 2025 8:21 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23

Cogadh Cathartha - civil war - the speaker from CD who is interviewing the one from Muskerry pronounces this Coga Catharga. I think it should be Catharha, right?


They write cathardha which is an alternative version of cathartha.
/kahərgə/ is a plausible pronunciation. A lot of words with this ending are even usually written -ga (órga mar sh.)

There’s /gə/ here, too: https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/cogadh_cathartha


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