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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2024 12:23 am 
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Posts: 171
Thimpeall is always lenited
Adhbhar iongantas in this case means something like a foreign concept.
Cos na leapthan - The foot of the bed
Thá sé ‘mithe - He’s gone
Ar feadh tamaillín - For a little while
Na mná b’iomdha a tháinig - It was mostly women that came.
Crónughadh na h-oidhche - Nightfall
Scrathacha móna - Turf scraws.
Snaoisín - Snuff
Datach na bpíopaí - The smoke of the pipes.
Deatach has a broad d, it is probably not a spelling error.
Píopa cailce - Clay pipe
I have never heard verb conjugations ending in -thas, hence rabhadh here.
Leanbh is a lot more common than páiste, in fact, I don’t think my grandma had páiste
Siuinéir - Carpenter
Coifín seems to be the Gaedhealthacht form of cónra universally.
Istig is the pronunciation of istigh before a vowel.
Ab fhearr is meant here.
Fuiscí is the form of whiskey. This seems common in loanwords: whiskey -> fuiscí, fuip -> whip.
Crúsca - Cruse, jug
Tráth is pronounced trách, rath as rach, etc
Anmhain is probably a spelling mistake, it is said anaman (the dative of anam, soul)
Grást, bhímíst, d’fhéadamaoist, the -t is a common spoken addition to s after long vowels
Tae seems to be written as té in this book, I don’t know if this was the author’s form but my grandparents had a broad ‘t’
Of course, ina is pronounced ‘na.
Sár a chuirtí é - Before he would be burried
Maidean is the nominative of maidin.
Cur in this case is being used as a noun meaning burial.
Nodlag is the old spelling, but doesn’t represent pronunciation.
Sochraid - Wake
Truicear - Trigger
Plána - Plane (tool)
Siseál - Chisel (tool)
Spíce - Nail
Even though seombra is masculine, s should always gain a ‘t-’ after ‘sa.’
Tríom is meant by tríomh.
Fuar-allas - Cold sweat
Spréidh - Spark
Puth - Puff
Greim daingean - Tight grip
Cruach - Pile of hay, also a name for a mountain or hill
I have heard both thángas and tháinigheas for past tense of teacht.
D’aiseagaigheas a raibh ar mo ghoile - I vomited out what was in my stomach
Raibh has a slender r, and before a consonant the bh is dropped.
Déisteannach - Nauseating, disgusting
My grandma had “im’ béal” (unlenited)
Ins na flaithis i bhfochair Dé agus na Maighdine Glórmhaire - In heaven
Éigin can be pronounced éigint.
Níor chuaidh an réidhteach san ar an scéal i bhfeidm im' intinn basically means ‘that explanation didn’t make sense to me.’
Le aoinne, ó aoinne is pronounced le h-aoinne, ó h-aoinne. Aoinne is with the name of the letter ‘i.’
Gur amhlaidh bheidhfí ag magadh fúm dá mbárr - That they would be joking about me because of it.
‘Dé’r’d is the pronunication of cad é rud é.
As everywhere in Munster, f lenites after sa.
Deimhneach is the pronunciation of what some people spell deimhnightheach (=cinnte)
Diaganta - Pious, holy
I would pronounce “as cuimhne” as “a’ chuimhne,” “as béal” as “a’bhéal” etc, but before vowels it remains as.
Dearmhad (dearúd) is the variant of dearmad, as it is in Kerry I believe, and can be used like “do dhearmhadas…” etc
Bhí sluagh mór bailighthe ann - A lot of people were gathered there
Go ndein (southern Waterford), go mbínn, go mbíodh, go dtángas are forms heard even in the old days. Also, a thug, a thóg (not ar) could be heard.
Roimh ré - Beforehand
Briosca - Biscuit
Lucht steandingí - People running the stands (loanword) ?
Céadna is the old spelling and does not represent the pronunciation céanna.
Binn tighe - Gable of house
Ar an mbean, mnaoi doesn’t exist in this dialect.
Ceann cnafáis - A canvas roof
Gan beann air pé fearthain a thuitfeadh - No damage to it no matter how much rain fell
Tuitim is the classical spelling of titim, but the latter is the pronunciation.
Ioldathach - Varied in appearance/colour
Próca - Jar
Plumaí méithe - Lush plums
Ubhla was the nominative plural that my grandma had also rather than ubhaill.
Tuairm is the pronunciation of tuairim.
Féirín - Gift
Agus mo bhrón bhíg na pacáistí mar gach aon rud eile ar an saoghal so, agus ba ró-annamh, nuair d’oscailítí é, nách mí-shásta a bhíodh an té a cheannuigh é. - The packages were like everything else in this life, it was too rare that when it was opened that the person who bought it would be happy
Beag is not pronounced beog, contrary to WM.
Cipín - Matchstick, small twig
Bascaed was also my grandparents’ word for basket, they didn’t have ciseán.
Fear na méaracán - Thimble-rigger
Urchar - Shot
Ar leath-mheisce - Half drunk
Coimhthionól - Assembly
Rí rá - Commotion
Plabadh in this case means fighting; hitting.
Le h-ais an fhalla - Beside the wall
Miam - Breath (n)
Rian catha - Battle sign/stain
Coicthidhis is the old spelling of coicís
Muna is usually the form of mura.
Buinneán fuinnseoige - Ash tree sprout?
Craorach - Red (as in blood)
Pílears - Peelers = police (loanword)
Duadh - Difficulty
Sean-eascairdeas - Long standing rivalry
Díthchéille - Nonsense
Sáirsint - Sergeant (loanword)
Scalladh béil - Scolding
A’ liuirigh agus a’ fógairt troda ar gach aoinne a thagadh ‘na threó - Yelling and announcing a fight on everyone who came towards him
Thá’s agam is the pronunciation of tá a fhios agam. Double vowels such as what learners use when pronouncing this don’t really exist. Níor chuaidh aoinne ‘mach. If the vowels are different, than an ‘h’ separates the sounds - “tigh ósta” = “te’ hósta”
Leithead dubh t’iongan - Hair’s breadth
B’fhíor do = Bhí an ceart aige. [o
A bpríosúnach a scaoileadh uatha ‘gus a mbaitíní a bheartú - To release their prisoners from them and to threaten people with their sticks
Congnamh is the old spelling of cúnamh (help).
Achrann means fight or disagreement; complication.
Tranglam - Disorder
Cearrbhach (pl. cearrbhaigh) - Card player
Aith-bheóchaint - Revival
Ag dul i luighead (not ag éirí níos lú) - Lessening
Teaic - Tack (loanword)
Tarraingthe pr. Tarraicthe
All the card names here are quite clear as they are all English loanwords I think.
Dísle - Dice
Órlach ciúbach - Cubed inch
Dealbhuighthe in this case means set.
Acht pronounced nach, níl as nín.
Gliúicéireacht is the form of gliúcaidheacht (spectating)
Cogar - Whisper
Infhiúchadh - Inspecting
As is seen in the direct quote here, the modh sgurtha is very common in Tipperary Irish. Bhí mé, thug mé, chuaidh tu, etc.
Súil-fhéachaint a dh’fhagháil ar - To get a look at
Iompó - Turn over
Ní bhacfaimíd - We don’t bother
Seift - Plan, plot
Gríosadh - Urging
Is sibh an dá dhiabhaillín is ádhbharaighe dá bhfeaca riamh - Yous are the luckiest two devils I ever saw
Póit is like a hangover, but can also be used in terms of cakes etc.
Cáca is the Waterford form contrary to WM císte.
I’m not sure about “hut!” here.
Madán is the Waterford form of amadán, and it goes so far to be lenited as mhadán.
Dá bhfuigheadh sé an chaoi - If he is able to
An cóir macánta an t-slighe a rugamar an t-airgead ón gcearrbhach? - Was it right the way that we took the money from the gamber?
A quick note on the “gur rugamar”/”ar rugamar…” it is often said that in the Déise the form is “a/ar” rather than WM “go/gur” e.g. an fear a/go bhfuil a mhac ag dul ar scoil. I think it depends on the speaker, because my grandparents had the “go/gur” form.
Nach le cleasuidheacht a mhaireann a leithéidí siúd, agus ní h-aon díoghbháil ar domhain cleas a dh’imirt ortha - Isn’t it on trickery that their likes survive, and it is no sin to play a trick on them - or something like that.
Strapa probably means steps in this case.
Bachram - Loud noise, commotion.
Bhí póit orm taréis a raibh ithte de mhilseáin agam - I was “hungover” after what I had eaten of sweets.
Scata - A group, a lot
Talamh leibhéalta - Level ground
Traidín - Bundle, load
Cnafás riach - Striped canvas
Bata siubhail - Walking stick
Lághach - Gentle
Séimhialta - Civil
Folt a chinn chún dubh le daol - And his hair jet-black
Buanaidhe - Reaper
Fear ceangal - A binder of corn
Bhí an foghmhar aibig an-luath an bliadhain sin - The harvest was ripe very early that year.
Thá m’athair curtha - My dad is passed away.
A comma is meant after Beilbí, and after againn, (otherwise slightly confusing)
Téighir isteach, not tar isteach.
Brathas níos soiléire ná mar bhrathas nuair labhair sé liom ar dtúis nár mhar a chéile a chanamhain agus an chanmhain a bhí ag muinntir an Ghleanna. - It became more clear to me than it originally was when he spoke to me that his dialect and the dialect that the people of the glen had were not the same.
Ba shin is pronounced b’ín.
Speal (g. speile) - Scythe, spealadóireacht - cutting grass with scythe
Ag buaint an choirce - Reaping the oats
Again, ag dul thar teorainn is the correct idiom rather than ag dul ró fhada leis or something.
Éitheach - Lie, thugais d’éitheach! You lied!
Focal cúl-cainte - Gossip, talk bad about someone behind their back
Eascaine - Curse
Níor thuig sé droich-mheas ná masla d’aoinne riamh agus ní fhulaingeóchadh sé drochmheas na masla ó aoinne. - He didn’t disrespect or insult anyone ever and he wouldn’t suffer disrespect or insult from anyone.
Níor ghádh dhuit eagla dá luighead a bheith ort go dtógfadh sé luach cíonóige dhe - You wouldn’t have to have any worry that he would take the tiniest amount of it
Duine léigheanta, duine foghlamanta - when using the words in this way they are not léighte or foghlamtha.

Thugadh sé congnamh dom go dtí go rabhas ábaltha ‘r an obair a dhéanamh dom fhéin agus réidhtígheadh sé dhom pé fadhb a bhuaileadh liom. Ní morán de dhuadh a fuaireas san obair mar bhí labhairt na teangan go maith agam cheana féin. Agus b’é a thug an chéad eolas dom ar Stair na hÉireann nuair a thug sé dhom “The Story of Ireland” le léigheamh; In aon focal amháin pé maitheas a bhí ionnam riamh mar feirmeoir agus mar fhear bíodh a bhaodhachas san ar Sheán MacCraith.
He helped me until I was able to do the work for myself and he would solve any problem I had. I didn’t have much difficulty with the work because I already spoke the language well. And it was him that gave me my first knowledge of the history of Ireland when he gave to me “The Story of Ireland” to read; in one word whatever good I am as a farmer and as a man that would be thanks to Seán MacCraith.

Agus thá ‘s ag an saoghal nach aon móran suime a chuireann a leithéidí id ghnó acht a bpadh lae a thuilleamh chomh bog agus is feidir leo. Nín annsan nach an rud is dual do’n duine. - And everyone knows that their likes don’t have much interest in the work but to earn their day’s pay as easy as possible. That is just human nature.

Again, roimis is pronounced roimhig.
Aicme - Class of people
Jobéirí - Jobbers
Ceanntuigheoirí (thatchers). This is how I wrote my username, as it is this book from which I learned to write Irish, but this is pronounced ceanntuíodóirí. (SL: ceanntuigheadóirí). My grandparents had the same form of this word rather than tuigheadóir, so maybe it is a Waterford/Tipperary variant.
Fear as an gcéad - One in a hundred; a great guy
Ní raibh aon ghnó a bhain le feirmeoireacht dall air. - He had no blindspot when it came to farming.
Buanaidhe thar bárr do b’eadh é - He was a great reaper
Ní raibh a leithéid de threabhadóir sa nGleann riamh - There was never such a great plougher in the glen.
Bhí sé ábaltha ar chruach agus stáca ‘ dhéanamh - He was able to make a stack of hay and a stack of corn.
Tá cladhthacha annso sa bhfeirm a thóg sé agus táid ‘na seasamh fós chomh maith agus bhíodar an chéad lá - There are stone walls here in the farm that he built and they are still standing as well as they were the first day
Doctúireacht bheithídheach - The doctoring of animals
Cráin - Sow
Bannaí - Piglets
Láir - Mare
Siorrach - Foal
Eiteach - Refusal
Tuigsionach - Smart, understands things
Dá shon san ní raibh bádh agam riamh le aoinne a bhain liom comh mór leis an mbádh a bhí agam leis - So I never had a greater fondness for anyone in my life as much as that that I had for him (interestingly, bádh also refers to a vertical unit of thatching, a bundle)
Iomairí - Ridges
Ar cíos - Rented
= t-ádh
Níl aon treabhadh is deacraidhe ná iomairí a dhéanamh i bpáirt bháin i gcomhair prataí. - There is no ploughing more difficult to do than ridges in an untilled part for potatoes.
Céachta gan rotha - Wheeless plough
People seem to often use socrú for fix, deisiú is better.
Bhí sé chomh maith chuige agus dá mba gréasaidheacht a chéird bheatha. - He was so good at it you would think his career was shoemaking.
Baile fearainn - Townland (fearann = ploughland)
Baile fearainn ar phort na h-Abhann Móire i bhfoigseacht radhairc na farraige agus roinnt mhaith miltí taobh theas desna sléibhte b'áit dúthchais do Sheán MacCraith - A townland on the port of the Big Rver near the view of the sea and some miles south of the mountains was Seán MacCraith’s hometown
Bádh = cion.

Up to p.50, seeing as we have reached a verdict on the legality. As it is a weekday, I don't have as much time to make quite as long as the original one, will do in smaller chunks. Tell me if i left anything important out or if you are confused about some word I didn't cover (or did)

_________________
I recommend to learn Irish pronunciation on doegen.ie
Scottish Gaelic pronunciation on tobarandualchais.co.uk


Last edited by Ceanntuigheoireacht6 on Thu 11 Jan 2024 1:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2024 12:46 am 
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The book is full of loanwords. The Déise is forever in close contact with English speaking areas - I doubt anyone only spoke Irish - unlike some of the remote western Gaedhealthacht areas which contributes to things like 'bascaed' probably. I have tried to replace those words with the native ones myself tho, if such a native word exists. E.g. I am completely happy to say péint, as uisce dath is not a word in any native speakers vocabulary. It also has a load of great words at the same time, for example "sciollán in iomairí báin."


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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2024 1:42 am 
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cearrbhach is pronounced cearrúch in WM
hut may be humth, "hmm!"?


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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2024 1:44 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
cearrbhach is pronounced cearrúch in WM
hut may be humth, "hmm!"?


as in the Déise. That might be it.


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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2024 1:47 am 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
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Ag dul i luighead (not ag éirí níos lú) - Lessening

Yes - this is an important feature of WM Irish too. Ag éirí XXX is from another dialectal area, and is probably originally Béarlachas (getting XXX).


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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2024 8:32 pm 
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One thing I dislike about Déise Irish is there are too many h sounds! Thá, thimpeall, athá


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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2024 9:57 pm 
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Do you say shara or sara?


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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2024 10:24 pm 
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Sara.


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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jan 2024 6:29 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
The PDF comes from a small group interested in Tipperary Irish and who have the original manuscript available for viewing in a small museum.


The manuscript you are referring to is no longer is possession of the group who performed the digitisation nor at the museum in Clonmel. It was handed over to UCC years ago along with SÓM's entire library. One exception though is the second manuscript (the one that was used for the actual basis of editing (i.e. censoring and standardising) and publishing An Gleann agus a Raibh Ann) is still at the NLI, if I remember correctly.

While the people that worked on the PDF performed an immense task and did exceptional work, it should be noted that there are transcriptional errors such as missing text or things that don't quite match what was actually written in the manuscript. Just a minor warning to be careful about attempting to interpret anything which might just be a transcriptional error. And since the transcription was meant to be a direct transcription of the manuscript, it'll also carry any errors left behind by SÓM himself. But for the most part, having the pdf and manuscript offer excellent insight into the Irish of Newcastle.

If I ever get around to it (on my long list of things I want to do), I will try to do an updated PDF to more closely align with the original manuscript.


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 Post subject: Re: My Notes on book
PostPosted: Sat 20 Jan 2024 4:01 am 
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Ceanntuigheoireacht6 wrote:
The book is full of loanwords. The Déise is forever in close contact with English speaking areas - I doubt anyone only spoke Irish - unlike some of the remote western Gaedhealthacht areas which contributes to things like 'bascaed' probably. I have tried to replace those words with the native ones myself tho, if such a native word exists. E.g. I am completely happy to say péint, as uisce dath is not a word in any native speakers vocabulary. It also has a load of great words at the same time, for example "sciollán in iomairí báin."


In Ring and surrounding areas, there has always been a great effort to keep Irish "pure" (the journal "An Linn Bhuí, for example) but so much English gets mixed in and seems generally accepted within certain parameters. It's similar to what has happened in Conamara, although to a greater degree there, and I think it is only natural. In another post on the forum, the words for those naughty bits Wagner elicited were and may still be used to a certain degree although I've only heard "balls" and MAYBE "ballaí" and not much about penis or vagina because the topics of discussion were usually about getting kicked or whacked in them during football or hurling matches.


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