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PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov 2023 1:35 am 
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It's sad to see, but this eejit is a teacher in Ireland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8Y8O783PR4


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PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov 2023 9:03 pm 
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How NOT to pronounced Irish: https://www.youtube.com/@Gaeilgeimochroi


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PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov 2023 11:27 pm 
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Ceanntuigheoireacht6 wrote:
How NOT to pronounced Irish: https://www.youtube.com/@Gaeilgeimochroi


Yes, I've spotted her befoe. Actually she says "i mo croí" with no lenition. This is not a criticism of an L2 speaker, who will never get things exact. But rather, they don't even accept the L1 speakers are the gold standard. So they're not trying to get it right.


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PostPosted: Thu 14 Dec 2023 3:03 am 
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I would love to see a breakdown of this video an these sounds and what's wrong and right.

It seems like on YouTube 80-90% of the Irish pronunciation is disrespectfully bad. This introduces a significant layer of difficult to acquiring the basic Irish sounds. (Fundamental to language acquisition) That is to say, as you listen to Irish and develop the sounds you are constantly forced to step back and check that you are not having nonsense sound models planted in your head.

I find that I almost have to be a hermit, delving into old tomes and listening to 100 year old recordings to actually acquire a Gaelic sound base. It is the only thing that has lead to any success.


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PostPosted: Thu 14 Dec 2023 10:02 am 
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Bungus mac wrote:
I would love to see a breakdown of this video an these sounds and what's wrong and right.

It seems like on YouTube 80-90% of the Irish pronunciation is disrespectfully bad. This introduces a significant layer of difficult to acquiring the basic Irish sounds. (Fundamental to language acquisition) That is to say, as you listen to Irish and develop the sounds you are constantly forced to step back and check that you are not having nonsense sound models planted in your head.

I find that I almost have to be a hermit, delving into old tomes and listening to 100 year old recordings to actually acquire a Gaelic sound base. It is the only thing that has lead to any success.

There are some on Youtube who, when told their pronunciation is just wrong, respond "I know it's not because I have a degree in Irish". Really speaking, you should not be able to get a degree in Irish without having good Irish. The various professors of Irish have a lot to answer for.


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PostPosted: Thu 14 Dec 2023 10:16 am 
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Another interesting thing is that all renditions of Amhrán na bhFiann on Youtube (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OetAvMnzO_k) are in the worst Irish ever. There isn't a single Youtube version with properly pronounced Irish.


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PostPosted: Thu 14 Dec 2023 10:31 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Another interesting thing is that all renditions of Amhrán na bhFiann on Youtube (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OetAvMnzO_k)

Merciful Heaven! That's not even typical school Irish errors, it's a whole other level.
It's like God Save the King being sung by Inspector Clouseau.

_________________
The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Thu 14 Dec 2023 5:33 pm 
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Location: Corcaigh
djwebb2021 wrote:
Another interesting thing is that all renditions of Amhrán na bhFiann on Youtube (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OetAvMnzO_k) are in the worst Irish ever. There isn't a single Youtube version with properly pronounced Irish.


Funny you should mention it in this thread. I've noticed a tendency in official sources (Dept. of the Taoiseach, etc.) to try and cram this into the caighdeán also. Abbreviations like canaig', that I've never seen anywhere else, are being used apparently because canaigí wouldn't fit the meter and it would be simply unacceptable to maintain the Munster forms canaíg or canaidh.

The Wikipedia article for the song has also been altered several times to remove allusions to its original dialectal sway. If you look through the history of update notes provided by one particular user who made a point of removing many mentions of Munster Irish, they tend to be fairly spurious. At one point they tried to remove a comment stating that the caighdeán form canaigí wouldn't fit the meter on the grounds that "Wikipedia doesn't allow independent research". :??:


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PostPosted: Thu 14 Dec 2023 6:56 pm 
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Ade wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
Another interesting thing is that all renditions of Amhrán na bhFiann on Youtube (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OetAvMnzO_k) are in the worst Irish ever. There isn't a single Youtube version with properly pronounced Irish.


Funny you should mention it in this thread. I've noticed a tendency in official sources (Dept. of the Taoiseach, etc.) to try and cram this into the caighdeán also. Abbreviations like canaig', that I've never seen anywhere else, are being used apparently because canaigí wouldn't fit the meter and it would be simply unacceptable to maintain the Munster forms canaíg or canaidh.

The Wikipedia article for the song has also been altered several times to remove allusions to its original dialectal sway. If you look through the history of update notes provided by one particular user who made a point of removing many mentions of Munster Irish, they tend to be fairly spurious. At one point they tried to remove a comment stating that the caighdeán form canaigí wouldn't fit the meter on the grounds that "Wikipedia doesn't allow independent research". :??:


Wikipedia - once an encyclopaedia anyone could edit - is tightly controlled by a cabal of politically correct loons. If you try to reverse that back, you will find yourself in an edit war and swiftly banned from editing altogether.

I see your point - it's as if they think canaig is an abbreviation of canaigí -when in fact canaidh, pronounced canaig, was the original imperative plural that is not an abbreviation of anything. The original text had fé and fén, not faoi and faoin. If you use Peadar Ua Laoghaire's grammar, it should be ní fágfar, not ní fhágfar. Of course the words "fé mhóid bheith saor" are meaningless in a country introducing a tight "hate-speech" bill to criminalise dissent and a country where the police can scan your mobile phone for social media posts with banned opinions!

Ní fágfar fén dtíorán ná fén dtráill??? Er, not really - not at all, in fact.


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PostPosted: Thu 14 Dec 2023 9:22 pm 
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Off topic but, since we are speaking of the CO i just thought it was interesting. My grandmother specifically, while she was a native speaker, she didnt grow up where other people commonly were for background info. she went to school, they taught Irish of course, and they were all L2 speakers, and it kind of put some weird little holes in specific parts of her irish I've come to realise. Example is, in small talk, she would say 'conas atá tú, tá mé go maith" i remember but had perfect native irish with great Munster grammar and vocabulary whenever you got her talking more than that. There was no "tá tú" "tá mé" other than that one phrase. So that was all I knew, conas atá tú, for a long time lol. She also had no clue how to count past 10 in Irish, she would just say "eleven" in the middle, and she would say the months and dates in english also. I don't know why that last part with numbers. Interesting phenomenon. But she had a great vocabulary other than that to describe everything, by no means otherwise bad Irish.


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