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PostPosted: Sun 15 May 2022 8:52 pm 
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Hi! I posted a question several days ago regarding the proper pronunciation of “oi/io” in the Ulster dialect. It was a pretty lengthy question, and no one answered who knew for sure. So I was just wondering if anyone at least knew the proper Ulster pronunciation for the word “foiche” (wasp) (although I’d be super grateful if anyone may know the answer to my longer question? :razz: )

Based off Abair.ie, it’s (FWEE.hyĭh), but sometimes Abair can be a little wonky, and I’d like to really know for sure, if anyone can help? :D Based off “oich” letter combo words on http://www.fuaimeanna.ie/ga/Recordings.aspx?Ortho=oich , I think it could also be (FĪ.hyĭh)? :/

Thank you to anyone who knows! :wave: :rofl:


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PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2022 11:02 am 
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Concerning the pronunciation of io and oi in Ulster Irish: it depends on the word, as far as I'm concerned I learn the pronunciation of these words by heart because I haven't noticed rules...

I think "foiche" is pronounced [ˈfɔçɛ] but I'm not 100% sure. You can ask in Gaeilge Amháin on Facebook, I'm sure there are Donegal native speakers who can answer.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2022 8:53 pm 
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Rose if you buy Vol 4 of Wagner's Atlas of Irish dialects (https://shop.dias.ie/product/linguistic ... -dialects/), it will be the most detailed source you can find. There will be several points in Ulster where an informant answered Wagner's questionnaire on the local dialect, and he transcribes it in phonetic transcription. In the Munster Volume, pt 15 was Muskerry, and there around 1200 sentences given as the translations for Wagner's questionnaire all in phonetic script. The Ulster Volume will probably have a section on Tory Island, a section on Rannafast, a section on some other area, etc. I think points 66 to 86 are Ulster - so it seems to have 20 sections covering slightly different Ulster dialects.


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PostPosted: Tue 17 May 2022 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri 22 Jan 2021 4:24 pm
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Wow! Thank you both SO much!

To Lughaidh, thank you! I’m gonna sign up for Facebook in the next few days and check that page/group out! :D (I’ve been operating almost exclusively on Instagram for years, and, for some reason, I’ve been avoiding Facebook cause it’s “new and different” to me…I don’t branch out well. :LOL: …but I definitely think it’s time.) :good:

To DJWebb, Wow! That book sounds like it’s just what I’m looking for! Thank you…I looked at it a few minutes ago, and it seems nearly indispensable (It costs nearly as much in shipping to get it to Alabama, but I’m gonna take the plunge anyway :LOL: ). It’ll be a lifelong resource.

Thank y’all both again for taking the time out of your day to help me out! :aingeal:

Mise le Meas,

Rosie :wave:


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PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun 2022 7:48 pm 
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Rosie, did you get your copy of the Ulster volume of Wagner's Atlas of Irish Dialects?
This is a huge book, very large and one you can't hold in the hand. All the transcriptions are in IPA. Lughaidh, who is on this forum, sent me the 4 pages from volume 1 that contain a guide to the symbols used. I can send those pages (or he can). You can email me at foghlamthoir@gmail.com I have gone through Pt 15 of the Munster volume with a fine toothcomb, noting every little pronunciation detail, and so if you choose one of the Ulster points to be your chosen target pronunciation, you can do that too. If it proves daunting, send me an email and I will help you.

I think you can look for Rannfast or Gortahorky in that book as dialects that have a large number of speakers and model your pronunciation on them.


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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jun 2022 1:30 am 
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Hi, DJWebb2021! :wave: (Again, sorry for the late reply…just now read your latest response.) Yes! I sure did get it in! And I looOoOove it! It’s definitely a doozy…but I figured out how to use it successfully the first day. And, Wow! What a generous offer…thank you to you and Lughaidh! I definitely noticed right off that the IPA was being used…some of the symbols match what I’ve found online, but some appear to be older symbols/symbols unique to this book series…

I read the intro pages, and that’s when I saw it…DUHN, Duhn, duuuuhn… (that’s a transliterated doom sound)…”consult Vol. 1 for pronunciation key” Ain’t it the way? :LOL:

So I read your response just in time!: I was gonna buy Vol. 1 this coming payday just for the pronunciation key! :reading: Thank you both so much…

So…Yes! I would love that! I’ll email you in the next day or two! Yaaay! :clap:

Go raibh maith agat arís!

Rosie

P.S. Here’s me with it on the back porch…it’s sure neat! https://www.instagram.com/p/CeWuQzJujaR ... MyMTA2M2Y=


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2022 12:57 am 
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Great. I've sent you the pages of the pronunciation guide.
In Vol 4, for Ulster, I know point 75 is Tory Island, and I know point 78 is Rann na Feirste. I don't know what exact parishes the other Ulster points relate to. Maybe you could consider points 75 and 78 as a jumping off point for Ulster Irish, given that we know where those ones are. Maybe the identity of the other points is given in Stair na Gaeilge (a brilliant book, but all in Standardised Irish; I've got it somewhere but don't know where I put it). There are 300 maps in Vol 1 of Wagner, and they would probably show you the exact names of all the parishes the Ulster points relate to, but I'm not sure it is worth buying the book for that.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2022 11:35 am 
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Indeed the transcription system used by Wagner isn't real IPA nor a phonological transcription but something inbetween. It's not very hard to learn though.

I can give you a list of the points of the LASID, but everything is given in the 1st volume (but some of the place-names aren't clear if you don't make a bit of research).

Btw the 1st volume has maps with words and sentences that aren't found in the other volumes, so it's very useful too.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2022 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri 22 Jan 2021 4:24 pm
Posts: 66
To DJWebb2021, Thank you so much! I successfully downloaded the pictures you sent, and they will come in very handy for me in fine-tuning my pronunciation! :good: (Who knows, maybe my book will help me finally figure out the Donegal slender r! :D My r’s still give me away as an Alabama girl. :LOL: )

To Lughaidh, Wow, that would be great! If it’s easier than typing it here, you can email me at irish.with.rosie@proton.me …Thanks so much! Also I took your advice & finally joined the Gaeilge Amháin group on Facebook! I was a little nervous, but I introduced myself, and everyone there has been very welcoming! So thank you for pointing me toward that. :clap:

Thank you both, agus labhróidh mé libh ar ball!

Rosie


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