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PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep 2015 7:07 am 
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Hi all,

I need assistance with an Irish phrase for a book I'm writing. The particular scene: an SAS assassin is dying after crossing paths with the protagonist (young Irishman from Portadown in the Six Counties). His final words are something like 'A patriot of Ireland, yet speaking English. The tyrant wins again.' The answer, 'No. The tyrant never wins' is what I need help with.

Thanks for your support.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation help
PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep 2015 3:51 pm 
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KirilRad wrote:
Hi all,

I need assistance with an Irish phrase for a book I'm writing. The particular scene: an SAS assassin is dying after crossing paths with the protagonist (young Irishman from Portadown in the Six Counties). His final words are something like 'A patriot of Ireland, yet speaking English. The tyrant wins again.' The answer, 'No. The tyrant never wins' is what I need help with.

Thanks for your support.


The problem is going to be with the single word "no," as Irish doesn't have dedicated words for "yes" and "no" (When answering questions, you use the verb used to ask the question in its positive form to say "yes" and in its negative form to say "no"). Since the speaker isn't answering a question, I'd just leave the "no" off of it and say "The tyrant will never win":

Ní bhuafaidh an tíoránach riamh.

If you want to get something of the feel of that denial implied by the "no," perhaps:

Is Gael mé. Ni bhuafaidh an tíoránach riamh. "I'm Irish. The tyrant will never win."

Wait for more input, please.

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: Translation help
PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep 2015 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
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Redwolf wrote:
KirilRad wrote:
Hi all,

I need assistance with an Irish phrase for a book I'm writing. The particular scene: an SAS assassin is dying after crossing paths with the protagonist (young Irishman from Portadown in the Six Counties). His final words are something like 'A patriot of Ireland, yet speaking English. The tyrant wins again.' The answer, 'No. The tyrant never wins' is what I need help with.

Thanks for your support.


The problem is going to be with the single word "no," as Irish doesn't have dedicated words for "yes" and "no" (When answering questions, you use the verb used to ask the question in its positive form to say "yes" and in its negative form to say "no"). Since the speaker isn't answering a question, I'd just leave the "no" off of it and say "The tyrant will never win":

Ní bhuafaidh an tíoránach riamh.

If you want to get something of the feel of that denial implied by the "no," perhaps:

Is Gael mé. Ni bhuafaidh an tíoránach riamh. "I'm Irish. The tyrant will never win."

Wait for more input, please.

Redwolf


Another option,

Ní fhaigheann an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh.

Cian

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: Translation help
PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep 2015 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:44 pm
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Redwolf wrote:
KirilRad wrote:
Hi all,

I need assistance with an Irish phrase for a book I'm writing. The particular scene: an SAS assassin is dying after crossing paths with the protagonist (young Irishman from Portadown in the Six Counties). His final words are something like 'A patriot of Ireland, yet speaking English. The tyrant wins again.' The answer, 'No. The tyrant never wins' is what I need help with.

Thanks for your support.


The problem is going to be with the single word "no," as Irish doesn't have dedicated words for "yes" and "no" (When answering questions, you use the verb used to ask the question in its positive form to say "yes" and in its negative form to say "no"). Since the speaker isn't answering a question, I'd just leave the "no" off of it and say "The tyrant will never win":

Ní bhuafaidh an tíoránach riamh.

If you want to get something of the feel of that denial implied by the "no," perhaps:

Is Gael mé. Ni bhuafaidh an tíoránach riamh. "I'm Irish. The tyrant will never win."

Wait for more input, please.

Redwolf


Another option,

Ní fhaigheann an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh.

Cian


This is a good one too. It literally translates to "The tyrant never gets the upper hand."

I'm not sure, though, whether we don't want the future tense here in Irish...what do you all think?

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: Translation help
PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep 2015 6:00 pm 
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Quote:
Another option,
Ní fhaigheann an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh.

Quote:
This is a good one too. It literally translates to "The tyrant never gets the upper hand."
I'm not sure, though, whether we don't want the future tense here in Irish...what do you all think?


It can work either way, but perhaps with a nuanced difference.

The first one can be read as "Tyrants never get the upper hand" (and so yours won't either), which is more like a saying or proverb, but isn't entirely true if you think about it, because tyrants do have the upper hand at times. You might say instead something like:
Ní fhaigheann an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh i ndeireadh
"Tyrants never get the upper hand in the end"
[not sure of the placement of riamh here, though, perhaps at the end instead]

In the future tense, as Ní bhfaighidh an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh, it could be read as "The tyrant will never get the upper hand." That could be read more as referring to this particular tyrant, rather than as a proverb.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation help
PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep 2015 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu 10 Sep 2015 6:41 am
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Real thanks for the versions. I'll sleep on it and see which one stands more organic within the text.

You've been awesome!


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 Post subject: Re: Translation help
PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep 2015 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1527
CaoimhínSF wrote:
Quote:
Another option,
Ní fhaigheann an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh.

Quote:
This is a good one too. It literally translates to "The tyrant never gets the upper hand."
I'm not sure, though, whether we don't want the future tense here in Irish...what do you all think?


It can work either way, but perhaps with a nuanced difference.

The first one can be read as "Tyrants never get the upper hand" (and so yours won't either), which is more like a saying or proverb, but isn't entirely true if you think about it, because tyrants do have the upper hand at times. You might say instead something like:
Ní fhaigheann an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh i ndeireadh
"Tyrants never get the upper hand in the end"
[not sure of the placement of riamh here, though, perhaps at the end instead]

In the future tense, as Ní bhfaighidh an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh, it could be read as "The tyrant will never get the upper hand." That could be read more as referring to this particular tyrant, rather than as a proverb.


hmm :??: , I kinda see your point, I don't think it would make much of a difference though!

I was wondering why you had yours in the future tense Audrey. Did you see the same difference in nuance?

You could also say ní bhéarfaidh an tíoránach an bua leis riamh or ní bheireann an tíoránach an bua leis riamh

Cian

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: Translation help
PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep 2015 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:44 pm
Posts: 3512
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
CaoimhínSF wrote:
Quote:
Another option,
Ní fhaigheann an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh.

Quote:
This is a good one too. It literally translates to "The tyrant never gets the upper hand."
I'm not sure, though, whether we don't want the future tense here in Irish...what do you all think?


It can work either way, but perhaps with a nuanced difference.

The first one can be read as "Tyrants never get the upper hand" (and so yours won't either), which is more like a saying or proverb, but isn't entirely true if you think about it, because tyrants do have the upper hand at times. You might say instead something like:
Ní fhaigheann an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh i ndeireadh
"Tyrants never get the upper hand in the end"
[not sure of the placement of riamh here, though, perhaps at the end instead]

In the future tense, as Ní bhfaighidh an tíoránach an lámh in uachtar riamh, it could be read as "The tyrant will never get the upper hand." That could be read more as referring to this particular tyrant, rather than as a proverb.


hmm :??: , I kinda see your point, I don't think it would make much of a difference though!

I was wondering why you had yours in the future tense Audrey. Did you see the same difference in nuance?

You could also say ní bhéarfaidh an tíoránach an bua leis riamh or ní bheireann an tíoránach an bua leis riamh

Cian


Yeah...I was just thinking that the habitual suggests that tyrants never do win when, alas, they do. I figured the future tense made it more a resolution on the part of this particular fighter re this particular tyrant.

Redwolf


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