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 Post subject: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb 2015 6:48 pm 
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Location: Birmingham, England
What is the difference between these two verbs?

Is there a difference in meaning between:

An ndeachaigh daidí ar Aifreann fós? and

Ar imigh daidí ar Aifreann fós? (if, in fact, that's a proper sentence).

As always, many thanks in advance if anyone can explain it to me.

MoK


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 Post subject: Re: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb 2015 7:28 pm 
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maidofkent wrote:
What is the difference between these two verbs?

Is there a difference in meaning between:

An ndeachaigh daidí ar Aifreann fós? and

Ar imigh daidí ar Aifreann fós? (if, in fact, that's a proper sentence).

As always, many thanks in advance if anyone can explain it to me.

MoK

It's a tricky one alright. The difference is pretty subtle, but I'm confident the first means "go" and the second means "leave". In the sentences above the second one doesn't make much sense assuming my suggestion is correct, though, so better wait for a bit more input.


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 Post subject: Re: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb 2015 8:55 pm 
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Gumbi wrote:
maidofkent wrote:
What is the difference between these two verbs?

Is there a difference in meaning between:

An ndeachaigh daidí ar Aifreann fós? and

Ar imigh daidí ar Aifreann fós? (if, in fact, that's a proper sentence).

As always, many thanks in advance if anyone can explain it to me.

MoK

It's a tricky one alright. The difference is pretty subtle, but I'm confident the first means "go" and the second means "leave". In the sentences above the second one doesn't make much sense assuming my suggestion is correct, though, so better wait for a bit more input.



Pretty much. I've always been told that imigh is "go" more in the means of "go away", or, basically, "leave".


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 Post subject: Re: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb 2015 9:15 pm 
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Location: Birmingham, England
Thank you Gumbi and Galaxyrocker,

I made the second sentence up, wondering if the two terms were interchangeable. I guess not - it probably doesn't make any sense.

I think I understand it better now. But as you say, Gumbi, the difference is very subtle.

MoK


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 Post subject: Re: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Sun 15 Feb 2015 11:43 pm 
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maidofkent wrote:
Thank you Gumbi and Galaxyrocker,

I made the second sentence up, wondering if the two terms were interchangeable. I guess not - it probably doesn't make any sense.

I think I understand it better now. But as you say, Gumbi, the difference is very subtle.

MoK

Yup, makes sense now, the second sentence doesn't make much sense :P


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 Post subject: Re: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb 2015 2:11 pm 
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There's always a clue in related words, of course. An immigrant is "inimirceach", from the same root. "imeacht" is not just "leaving" but even "moving on". Once you get past the first sense of the word on focloir.ie, this becomes increasingly clear.

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


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 Post subject: Re: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Mon 16 Feb 2015 7:25 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
There's always a clue in related words, of course. An immigrant is "inimirceach", from the same root. "imeacht" is not just "leaving" but even "moving on". Once you get past the first sense of the word on focloir.ie, this becomes increasingly clear.


I didn't know that word (inimirceach), Niall, but I doubt I'll forget it now.

It sometimes seems that trying to understand Irish needs the same approach as tackling a MENSA test, rather than trying to translate a language. :S


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 Post subject: Re: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Tue 17 Feb 2015 4:13 pm 
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maidofkent wrote:
NiallBeag wrote:
There's always a clue in related words, of course. An immigrant is "inimirceach", from the same root. "imeacht" is not just "leaving" but even "moving on". Once you get past the first sense of the word on focloir.ie, this becomes increasingly clear.


I didn't know that word (inimirceach), Niall, but I doubt I'll forget it now.

It sometimes seems that trying to understand Irish needs the same approach as tackling a MENSA test, rather than trying to translate a language. :S

Learning and understanding isn't about "translating" though -- translating is a useful learning task, but it's supposed to help you make the associations you need to learn the language. Making associations only to your native language will never make you comfortable understanding any language. In Spanish, there's a word (comida) that means "food", but also "meal", and even more specifically "lunch".

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


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 Post subject: Re: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Tue 17 Feb 2015 5:36 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
maidofkent wrote:
NiallBeag wrote:
There's always a clue in related words, of course. An immigrant is "inimirceach", from the same root. "imeacht" is not just "leaving" but even "moving on". Once you get past the first sense of the word on focloir.ie, this becomes increasingly clear.


I didn't know that word (inimirceach), Niall, but I doubt I'll forget it now.

It sometimes seems that trying to understand Irish needs the same approach as tackling a MENSA test, rather than trying to translate a language. :S

Learning and understanding isn't about "translating" though -- translating is a useful learning task, but it's supposed to help you make the associations you need to learn the language. Making associations only to your native language will never make you comfortable understanding any language. In Spanish, there's a word (comida) that means "food", but also "meal", and even more specifically "lunch".


That's an important point. In fact, you know you're making progress in a language when you realize that you're no longer mentally translating. It's also one reason why mhwombat always used to advise people who had to write something in Irish for an exam to write directly in Irish (even if you have to use baby sentences) rather than mentally writing what you want to say in English and trying to "translate" it.

When I was in Ireland last, I was struggling with saying something to my bean a' tí, and she told me "You know how to say it. Don't think in English. Think how to express it in Irish." That was when I realized that, most of the times I'd get bogged down, I was still trying to "translate" rather than just use the Irish I had.

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: téigh v imigh
PostPosted: Tue 17 Feb 2015 8:34 pm 
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Location: Birmingham, England
NiallBeag wrote:
maidofkent wrote:

It sometimes seems that trying to understand Irish needs the same approach as tackling a MENSA test, rather than trying to translate a language. :S


Learning and understanding isn't about "translating" though -- translating is a useful learning task, but it's supposed to help you make the associations you need to learn the language.


Yes, that's the point I was making, although maybe not very clearly.

I've only been learning a few months, but the way I see it is that to understand it I would need to apply my knowledge of how the language works - rather like an intelligence test - not try and translate individual words.


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