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 Post subject: Re: Dude!
PostPosted: Sun 30 Nov 2014 11:13 pm 
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What about - boc ?


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 Post subject: Re: Dude!
PostPosted: Sun 30 Nov 2014 11:26 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
What about - boc ?


I wouldn't think that would work. It doesn't have quite the nuance.

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: Dude!
PostPosted: Mon 01 Dec 2014 1:39 am 
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I'd never really thought about the origin of the word, but I found this on the web:

Quote:
For some time now, we have known the basic outline of the story of "dude." The word was first used in the late 1800s as a term of mockery for young men who were overly concerned with keeping up with the latest fashions. It later came to stand for clueless city folk (who go to dude ranches) before it morphed into our all-purpose laid-back label for a guy. What we didn't know was why the word dude was chosen in the first place.

Now, we finally have the answer. Allan Metcalf (who wrote the book on "OK") reports in The Chronicle of Higher Education that a massive, decade-long "dude" research project has finally yielded convincing results.

The project belongs to Barry Popik and Gerald Cohen, described by Metcalf as "Googlers before there was Google." Along with the help of other colleagues, they have been combing through 19th century periodicals for years, slowly amassing the world's biggest collection of dude citations. The latest issue of Cohen's journal, Comments on Etymology, lays out, in 129 pages, the most solidly supported account yet of the early days of dude.

So where does dude come from? Evidence points to "doodle," as in "Yankee Doodle Dandy." He's the fellow who, as the song has it, "stuck a feather in his cap and called it macaroni." "Macaroni" became a term for a dandy in the 18th century after young British men returned from their adventures on the European continent sporting exaggerated high-fashion clothes and mannerisms (along with a taste for an exotic Italian dish called "macaroni"). The best a rough, uncultured colonist could do if he wanted to imitate them was stick a feather in his cap.

"For some reason," Metcalf says, "early in 1883, this inspired someone to call foppish young men of New York City 'doods,' with the alternate spelling 'dudes' soon becoming the norm." Some of the early mocking descriptions of these dudes seem awfully familiar today: "A weak mustache, a cigarette, a thirteen button vest/A curled rim hat — a minaret — two watch chains cross the breast." Yep, sounds like a hipster. But that word has gotten so stale. We should all go back to "dood," or maybe even "doodle."

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 Post subject: Re: Dude!
PostPosted: Mon 01 Dec 2014 12:25 pm 
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I read allright that the word had first come into use in Britain in the late 1800's.

Since both British and American cities were teaming with Irish immigrants could the word have an Irish origin ? The similar Irish words sound much closer to Dude than the proposed doodle.

dúdaire = 3. Dolt.
dúd(a), m = dúid.
dúid =4. (a) Stumpy person. (b) Mopish, shy person; numbskull. (Var: ~eán m)
dúdach, a1 3. Mopish, shy, foolish-looking, queer.
dúdálaí, m. (gs. ~, pl. -aithe). Shy, self-conscious, person; stupid person.

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall


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 Post subject: Re: Dude!
PostPosted: Tue 02 Dec 2014 2:09 am 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
I'd never really thought about the origin of the word, but I found this on the web:

Quote:
For some time now, we have known the basic outline of the story of "dude." The word was first used in the late 1800s as a term of mockery for young men who were overly concerned with keeping up with the latest fashions. It later came to stand for clueless city folk (who go to dude ranches) before it morphed into our all-purpose laid-back label for a guy. What we didn't know was why the word dude was chosen in the first place.

Now, we finally have the answer. Allan Metcalf (who wrote the book on "OK") reports in The Chronicle of Higher Education that a massive, decade-long "dude" research project has finally yielded convincing results.

The project belongs to Barry Popik and Gerald Cohen, described by Metcalf as "Googlers before there was Google." Along with the help of other colleagues, they have been combing through 19th century periodicals for years, slowly amassing the world's biggest collection of dude citations. The latest issue of Cohen's journal, Comments on Etymology, lays out, in 129 pages, the most solidly supported account yet of the early days of dude.

So where does dude come from? Evidence points to "doodle," as in "Yankee Doodle Dandy." He's the fellow who, as the song has it, "stuck a feather in his cap and called it macaroni." "Macaroni" became a term for a dandy in the 18th century after young British men returned from their adventures on the European continent sporting exaggerated high-fashion clothes and mannerisms (along with a taste for an exotic Italian dish called "macaroni"). The best a rough, uncultured colonist could do if he wanted to imitate them was stick a feather in his cap.

"For some reason," Metcalf says, "early in 1883, this inspired someone to call foppish young men of New York City 'doods,' with the alternate spelling 'dudes' soon becoming the norm." Some of the early mocking descriptions of these dudes seem awfully familiar today: "A weak mustache, a cigarette, a thirteen button vest/A curled rim hat — a minaret — two watch chains cross the breast." Yep, sounds like a hipster. But that word has gotten so stale. We should all go back to "dood," or maybe even "doodle."


You should also give a listen to this: http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/ ... _dude.html


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 Post subject: Re: Dude!
PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec 2014 11:54 am 
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I would agree with Redwolf that 'a mhac' would be used in a very similar way to 'dude' but it's very much a Connemara thing ('a chomrádaí' would not be an uncommon form of address between men in Connemara as well).

I would associate 'a bhuachaill' particularly (but not exclusively) with Munster Irish.

Though it's with the Donegal Gaeltacht I have the most contact now, there doesn't seem to be any word used in Donegal Irish that comes to mind that is as commonly used as the words above (I've heard 'a dheartháir' and 'a stócaigh' a few times but they're by no means common - certainly nowhere near as common as 'a mhac' or 'a bhuachaill'). 'Boc' is very commonly used in Donegal as an informal way to refer to a male (i.e. 'guy', 'dude', etc.) but I've never heard it used as a form of address ('a bhoic'/'a bhoc').

Hmmm... :??:


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 Post subject: Re: Dude!
PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec 2014 6:31 pm 
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Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
I read allright that the word had first come into use in Britain in the late 1800's.

Since both British and American cities were teaming with Irish immigrants could the word have an Irish origin ? The similar Irish words sound much closer to Dude than the proposed doodle.

dúdaire = 3. Dolt.
dúd(a), m = dúid.
dúid =4. (a) Stumpy person. (b) Mopish, shy person; numbskull. (Var: ~eán m)
dúdach, a1 3. Mopish, shy, foolish-looking, queer.
dúdálaí, m. (gs. ~, pl. -aithe). Shy, self-conscious, person; stupid person.


That is really interesting, especially since the 19th century is when a lot of Irish words and expressions passed into English, not only in the US but also in Britain (which experienced heavy Irish immigration then), especially in the "cant" used by the lower classes in big cities (and, yes, among criminals), with the word "cant" itself probably coming from the Irish caint.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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 Post subject: Re: Dude!
PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec 2014 6:32 pm 
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Tadhg_an_mhargaidh wrote:
I would agree with Redwolf that 'a mhac' would be used in a very similar way to 'dude' but it's very much a Connemara thing ('a chomrádaí' would not be an uncommon form of address between men in Connemara as well).

I would associate 'a bhuachaill' particularly (but not exclusively) with Munster Irish.

Though it's with the Donegal Gaeltacht I have the most contact now, there doesn't seem to be any word used in Donegal Irish that comes to mind that is as commonly used as the words above (I've heard 'a dheartháir' and 'a stócaigh' a few times but they're by no means common - certainly nowhere near as common as 'a mhac' or 'a bhuachaill'). 'Boc' is very commonly used in Donegal as an informal way to refer to a male (i.e. 'guy', 'dude', etc.) but I've never heard it used as a form of address ('a bhoic'/'a bhoc').

Hmmm... :??:


With the exception of "a stócaigh" the rest is found in Connemara too.

A mhac - is probably the commonest.

A dheartháir/a dheirfúir - is fairly common too, especially among the older generation.

Boc - is used but like you said I don't think it would be in the vocative.
(boc mór or boicín means bigshot in Conamara- sometimes "boc mór" is actually used as a euphemism for cancer "sé an boc mór atá air").

So maybe use -
A mhac
or
(An) Boc !


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