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PostPosted: Mon 18 Aug 2014 5:29 pm 
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It's a stop consonant, don't worry!

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Aug 2014 5:31 pm 
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Dublin Gaelic wrote:
NiallBeag wrote:
Dublin Gaelic wrote:
Redwolf wrote:
Getting an initial g from v/w is highly unlikely, as is -an- from -ín, which is generally always -een in Anglo-Irish.

But that surely depends on any other nationalities in the historical mix. Initial W<->G is a pretty standard change (compare war and guerre, Wales and Galles). However, that's a moot point, because to a non-speaker, the G isn't really in initial position at all, and W->G in non-initial position is indeed pretty rare.


I should have clarified that I meant that initial w <-> g is highly unlikely specifically in Irish and Anglo-Irish. (Although 'unlikely' does not mean 'impossible' - we do see some very odd shifts.)

You mean Hiberno-English? The thing is we're talking about emmigrants here, and the question needs to be asked as to the influences of the family's English. The safest assumption would be mostly Hiberno-English, but the question should still be asked...

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Aug 2014 6:00 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
You mean Hiberno-English? The thing is we're talking about emmigrants here, and the question needs to be asked as to the influences of the family's English. The safest assumption would be mostly Hiberno-English, but the question should still be asked...


Anglo-Irish and Hiberno-English (and latterly Irish English) have quite different meanings. From the introduction to Ó Muirithe's A Dictionary of Anglo-Irish (2000), p. 11:

"Professor P L Henry of University College, Galway, spoke of the three major strands that are woven in the English of Ireland: 'Firstly, a characteristically rural variety compounded of Irish and English or Irish and Scots. This developed chiefly in the last century and a half and is properly called Anglo-Irish. The second is a more urban, regional and standard variety tending towards international or so-called Standard English. This derives ultimately from British settlers in Ireland and its germinal period was the 17th Century. It is properly called Hiberno-English. The third strand is Ulster Scots from the same period.' I readily concede that the term 'Anglo-Irish' does not please everybody..."

Anglo-Irish is used very specifically to refer to the localised English of areas, usually rural, that had been recently Irish-speaking. It exhibits a very strong and direct influence from the former Irish dialect of the area lexically, grammatically and phonologically. (cf: Anglo-Manx vs Manx English.)

It is not the same as Hiberno-English, which is a blanket term used of various Englishes spoken in Ireland (usually historically and often relating to urban varieties), or Irish English, which refers, also in a blanket way, to the evolving Englishes spoken in Ireland today.

Of course you are entirely correct that the questioner would do us a great favour if he or she could find out which language (whether English or Gaeilge) was spoken in their family.


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Aug 2014 6:13 pm 
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Dublin Gaelic wrote:
Bríd Mhór wrote:
Sorry but I'm not very good at linguistic terms. There isn't an ACH (K) sound in either of my sound files.


Apologies. Yes, I meant a slight ch sound, as if the word were a ghleachánaí. That is what I thought I heard at first, but I think I am just hearing a broad c. The problem is with the speakers I'm using, not the crystal clear sample you provided.


No apology needed at all.

Jay Bee wrote:
It's a stop consonant, don't worry!


I don't know what that is either :D

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
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I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Aug 2014 6:59 pm 
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b, p, c/k, g, d, t are stops as the air is stopped to a greater or lesser degree. The rest (or the ones I missed) are not ;)

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PostPosted: Thu 21 Aug 2014 8:47 pm 
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I was PMed this other suggestion -

Seans go bhfuil focal eile ann:
Glagaire (ar nós 'Clabaire')
...a ghlagaire... agus an chaoi a measctar an 'n' agus an 'r' scaití...
...glagaire: Duine an-chainteach agus nach mbeadh mórán céille lena chuid cainte ach ag sioscadh leis, bíodh sé fíor nó bréagach.
You silly boy!, a ghlagaire!

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Thu 21 Aug 2014 11:01 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
I was PMed this other suggestion -

Seans go bhfuil focal eile ann:
Glagaire (ar nós 'Clabaire')
...a ghlagaire... agus an chaoi a measctar an 'n' agus an 'r' scaití...
...glagaire: Duine an-chainteach agus nach mbeadh mórán céille lena chuid cainte ach ag sioscadh leis, bíodh sé fíor nó bréagach.
You silly boy!, a ghlagaire!


I thought of that, too, but was shy about saying so. FGB has glogarnach, gliogarnach, and gliogar (as well as gliogaireacht) as variant forms of "(foolish) prattling", with gliogaire, formed from the third one, as a person who does the prattling (probably a variant form of glagaire). So, if gliogar (and perhaps glagar in some places) can be the act and glagaire and gliogaire the person, perhaps glogarnach or gliogarnach could also be used to name the person, which when addressing him might result in a ghlogarnaigh or a ghliogarnaigh.

Hope I haven't messed up the spelling there anywhere!

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug 2014 1:05 pm 
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Thank you all - especially Bríd Mhór for the recordings. Having played the sounds for my father, he thinks it is probably the "a ghleacánaí" that sounded most like what he remembers.

Again - thanks to all of you. Your on-line discussion was fascinating to my father, mother, and I. You have helped solve a bit of a family mystery that had stood out for decades.


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PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug 2014 2:01 pm 
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Glad to be of assistance :good:

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PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug 2014 3:42 pm 
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jwhite wrote:
Thank you all - especially Bríd Mhór for the recordings. Having played the sounds for my father, he thinks it is probably the "a ghleacánaí" that sounded most like what he remembers.

Again - thanks to all of you. Your on-line discussion was fascinating to my father, mother, and I. You have helped solve a bit of a family mystery that had stood out for decades.



You are very welcome.


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