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PostPosted: Thu 06 Mar 2014 4:27 pm 
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To expand on what An Lon Dubh said:

"fios" needs a fact, a piece of information. "Who he is" is a piece of information, hence "Níl a fhios agam cé hé." "Him" is not a fact, so you can't use "fios".

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar 2014 9:41 pm 
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Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
Mick wrote:
I have another one.

I was taught to say "tá aithne agam" for knowing a person and "tá a fhios agam" for knowing facts or information. But I often hear people using fios for knowing a person too. I'm fairly sure that's wrong, but not 100% sure.

I was taught the same, but i also heard it used by old native speakers on the Doegen recordings.
e.g. "Cé a bhí ag caint leat ar an tsráid? Níl a fhios agam cé hé."


Somebody very close to my heart, go ndéana Dia grásta uirthi, originally from Inis Mór always said:
Tá fhios am é
or
Níl fhios am é
or
Bhfuil fhios ad é?
or
Ní raibh fhios am an fear sin ar chor ar bith
...and things like that for knowing someone or not knowing someone.

I agree that the 'correct' form should be using 'aithne air...' or 'cé hé' - but then again who sticks to the 'rules' when we're having an auld chat.... :)

...oddly enough: 'Níl a fhios agam cé hé' is correct!

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar 2014 11:17 pm 
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Braoin wrote:
I agree that the 'correct' form should be using 'aithne air...' or 'cé hé' - but then again who sticks to the 'rules' when we're having an auld chat.... :)

Well, if she used it and she was from Inis Mór, then it's correct. The rules in grammar books aren't as important as what goes on in an auld chat. :)

(Previous post edited)

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar 2014 11:27 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Braoin wrote:
I agree that the 'correct' form should be using 'aithne air...' or 'cé hé' - but then again who sticks to the 'rules' when we're having an auld chat.... :)

Well, if she used it and she was from Inis Mór, then it's correct. The rules in grammar books aren't as important as what goes on in an auld chat. :)

(Previous post edited)
I am obviously not going to question the lady from Inis Mór, but I regularly hear people whose first language is English make grammar mistakes; it is not a foolproof method. :??:

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar 2014 11:38 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:
Braoin wrote:
I agree that the 'correct' form should be using 'aithne air...' or 'cé hé' - but then again who sticks to the 'rules' when we're having an auld chat.... :)

Well, if she used it and she was from Inis Mór, then it's correct. The rules in grammar books aren't as important as what goes on in an auld chat. :)

(Previous post edited)
I am obviously not going to question the lady from Inis Mór, but I regularly hear people whose first language is English make grammar mistakes; it is not a foolproof method. :??:

I agree with you on that, I wouldn't suggest that just because something appears in conversation that it is correct. The difference with Irish is that, as I'm not a native speaker, I can't confidently say if something is wrong or not, or rather whether it is a nit pick or not. As a non-native speaker my error radar can sometimes be completely off. Stuff I thought was a minor error I've seen native speakers baulk at and things I thought were major errors are apparently just acceptable variants.

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PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar 2014 8:50 am 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Stuff I thought was a minor error I've seen native speakers baulk at and things I thought were major errors are apparently just acceptable variants.
Tuigim agus aontaím leat.

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PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar 2014 11:43 am 
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Of course there's (the perfectly correct) likes of Tá a fhios agat Seán - 'You know Seán', i.e. what he's like, the way he is.


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PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar 2014 12:01 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
Of course there's (the perfectly correct) likes of Tá a fhios agat Seán - 'You know Seán', i.e. what he's like, the way he is.


Cool, I was unaware you could use it like that. Thanks

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PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar 2014 2:43 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
I am obviously not going to question the lady from Inis Mór, but I regularly hear people whose first language is English make grammar mistakes; it is not a foolproof method. :??:

What's an error? Is it a mistake when t' old folk of Yorkshire call someone "thee"? And be it wrong when a Hampshire sea dog uses "be" and "is" as distinct verbs? Or when a Welshman says "lovely day is in it? (atá ann)

A lot of things that teachers like to call errors are just dialectal variation, and if dialectal variation is a bad thing, then the subtitles on TG4 all qualify as bad English. I mean, "I'm after doing it"? What sort of grammar is that? ;)

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PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar 2014 3:24 pm 
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My own personal usage -
Tá 'fhíos 'am an fear sin. - I know that man.
Tá aithne 'am ar an bhfear sin. - I know that man. (I personally know him, rather than just recognise him)

You can also say "aithne súl" for knowing somebody but not knowing them personally.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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