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PostPosted: Thu 27 Feb 2014 4:44 pm 
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sasa wrote:
Redwolf wrote:
sasa wrote:
Hi I was looking for a bit of help in answering the questions I have been given for my obair bhaile in a beginners Irish class I am doing.

So we basically have to write the answers to questions asking the colour of things. I will give you a few examples.

Cén dath atá ar sneachta?

Cén dath atá ar nóiníní?

Cén dath atá ar dhuilleoga úra?

Now from my school days I would have answered these questions with - Ta an sneachta bán but the handout she gave us says that in Irish you say a colour is 'on' a thing so for example Tá dath buí ar bhanana.

So for number one should I be saying - Tá dath bán ar sneactha?

Thanks in advance :wave:


Well, there's nothing wrong, as far as I can see, with saying "Tá sneachta bán," but if that's how she wants you to answer, I think you've got it right, other than that you need to lenite after "ar": So "Tá dath ban ar shneachta." I'd read that at "Snow is colored white."

Redwolf


Hi Redwolf thanks for that. When you say I must add a lenite to all the words after 'ar' I assume in the case of - Cén dath atá ar dhuilleoga úra? The h is already there so I dont need to change any words there?

thanks


I'm suddenly suffering an attack of indecision here. Folks, is "S" one of the letters that doesn't lenite after "ar"?

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Thu 27 Feb 2014 9:03 pm 
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Quote:
I'm suddenly suffering an attack of indecision here. Folks, is "S" one of the letters that doesn't lenite after "ar"?

Redwolf

No, D,T,S aren't lenited after D,N,T,L,S. However after an R, S can be lenited.

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PostPosted: Thu 27 Feb 2014 10:34 pm 
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I realised you're actually referring explicitly to lenition after ar, rather than just after r. Lenition or non-lenition in this case is related to whether ar + noun refers to simply "on an object" (lenition) or refers to a state or abstract terms (lenition). For example:

ar bhord = on a table.
ar bord = on board (a ship).

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PostPosted: Thu 27 Feb 2014 11:36 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
I realised you're actually referring explicitly to lenition after ar, rather than just after r. Lenition or non-lenition in this case is related to whether ar + noun refers to simply "on an object" (lenition) or refers to a state or abstract terms (lenition). For example:

ar bhord = on a table.
ar bord = on board (a ship).


Yes, that's what I was thinking. So it's correct to say "Tá dath bán ar shneachta"? Don't want to give sasa here misinformation.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Fri 28 Feb 2014 12:22 am 
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I would say yes: Ar shneachta.

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PostPosted: Fri 28 Feb 2014 6:43 pm 
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In case it's helpful, here's a set of color-related terms and phrases I've collected over the years. I posted this on the old forum, but not here I think, and I've continued to add to it. There are often variations in color perception from one culture to another, which helps explain some of the peculiarities (to a non-Irish speaker) in the Irish terms. For example, in some societies, the sky is just "sky colored" and water is just "water-colored", and they are not necessarily perceived as being blue (they frequently range through many colors), and some societies may perceive green plants as just "plant colored" or "natural colored", especially if their plants are not all that green. There have been really interesting studies done about how man has been perceiving more color variation over time, especially as societies became more complex and reasons arose for making distinctions.

dath -- color
an dath gorm -- the color blue
Cén dath atá ar an gcarr? -- What color is the car?
Cén dath atá air? Cén dath é? -- What color is it?
Tá dath corcra air. -- It is purple [colored].
Is é an dath céanna é. -- It is the same color.

illdatha -- multicolored
dearg -- red
gríséadach -- roan [of horses]
bándearg -- pink
oráiste -- orange
buí -- yellow [buírua = bay (horse)]
órga -- golden
glas -- green [also = grey for horses & cows]
bánghlas -- light green
uaine -- [vivid] green [clothes, etc.]
gorm -- blue
dúgorm -- navy blue
corcra -- purple
corcairdhearg -- purple
corcairghorm -- violet

bán -- white
geal -- light colored
dubh -- black
dorcha -- dark colored
donn -- brown [donnrua = bay (horse)]
donnbhuí -- light brown, beige
crón -- [dark] tan
bánbhuí -- cream-colored
liath -- grey [but see glas above]
airgid -- silver

[donn / gorm / …] dorcha -- dark [brown / blue / …]
[donn / gorm / …] éadrom -- light [brown / blue / …]

For hair, use “ar”:
Tá gruaig … orm. -- I have … hair.
[ceann / duine] rua -- red [red-head /red-haired person]
[ceann / duine] dhearg -- red [red-head /red-haired person]
[ceann / duine] fhionn -- blond [blond / fair-haired person]
[ceann / duine] liath -- grey [grey-haired person]
[ceann / duine] dhonn -- brown [brown-haired person]
[ceann / duine] dhubh -- black [black-haired person]
[ceann / duine] bhán -- white [white-haired person]
Tá gruaig fhada dhonn orm. -- I have long brown hair.
Tá gruaig ghairid dhubh orm. -- I have short black hair.
Is fionn é. -- He is [blond/fair].
Is fear rua é. -- He’s a red-headed man.
Tá mé maol. -- I’m bald.

For eyes, use “ag”:
Tá … agam. -- I have …
súile gorma -- blue eyes
súile glase -- green eyes
súile liath -- grey eyes
súile liathglase -- grey-green eyes
súile donna -- brown eyes
súile dubh -- black/dark eyes
Tá súile liathglase agam. -- I have grey-green eyes.
Is gormshúileach é. -- He is blue-eyed.
Is glasshúileach í. -- She is green-eyed.
Tá mé dall. -- I’m blind.

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PostPosted: Fri 28 Feb 2014 7:01 pm 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
In case it's helpful, here's a set of color-related terms and phrases I've collected over the years.
I bet that post will be very help to many people. Great post Caoimhín! :clap: Even the distinction between gruaig ar and súile ag daoine is worth mentioning every now and again. 8-)

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PostPosted: Fri 28 Feb 2014 8:00 pm 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
In case it's helpful, here's a set of color-related terms and phrases I've collected over the years. I posted this on the old forum, but not here I think, and I've continued to add to it. There are often variations in color perception from one culture to another, which helps explain some of the peculiarities (to a non-Irish speaker) in the Irish terms. For example, in some societies, the sky is just "sky colored" and water is just "water-colored", and they are not necessarily perceived as being blue (they frequently range through many colors), and some societies may perceive green plants as just "plant colored" or "natural colored", especially if their plants are not all that green. There have been really interesting studies done about how man has been perceiving more color variation over time, especially as societies became more complex and reasons arose for making distinctions.

dath -- color
an dath gorm -- the color blue
Cén dath atá ar an gcarr? -- What color is the car?
Cén dath atá air? Cén dath é? -- What color is it?
Tá dath corcra air. -- It is purple [colored].
Is é an dath céanna é. -- It is the same color.

illdatha -- multicolored
dearg -- red
gríséadach -- roan [of horses]
bándearg -- pink
oráiste -- orange
buí -- yellow [buírua = bay (horse)]
órga -- golden
glas -- green [also = grey for horses & cows]
bánghlas -- light green
uaine -- [vivid] green [clothes, etc.]
gorm -- blue
dúgorm -- navy blue
corcra -- purple
corcairdhearg -- purple
corcairghorm -- violet

bán -- white
geal -- light colored
dubh -- black
dorcha -- dark colored
donn -- brown [donnrua = bay (horse)]
donnbhuí -- light brown, beige
crón -- [dark] tan
bánbhuí -- cream-colored
liath -- grey [but see glas above]
airgid -- silver

[donn / gorm / …] dorcha -- dark [brown / blue / …]
[donn / gorm / …] éadrom -- light [brown / blue / …]

For hair, use “ar”:
Tá gruaig … orm. -- I have … hair.
[ceann / duine] rua -- red [red-head /red-haired person]
[ceann / duine] dhearg -- red [red-head /red-haired person]
[ceann / duine] fhionn -- blond [blond / fair-haired person]
[ceann / duine] liath -- grey [grey-haired person]
[ceann / duine] dhonn -- brown [brown-haired person]
[ceann / duine] dhubh -- black [black-haired person]
[ceann / duine] bhán -- white [white-haired person]
Tá gruaig fhada dhonn orm. -- I have long brown hair.
Tá gruaig ghairid dhubh orm. -- I have short black hair.
Is fionn é. -- He is [blond/fair].
Is fear rua é. -- He’s a red-headed man.
Tá mé maol. -- I’m bald.

For eyes, use “ag”:
Tá … agam. -- I have …
súile gorma -- blue eyes
súile glase -- green eyes
súile liath -- grey eyes
súile liathglase -- grey-green eyes
súile donna -- brown eyes
súile dubh -- black/dark eyes
Tá súile liathglase agam. -- I have grey-green eyes.
Is gormshúileach é. -- He is blue-eyed.
Is glasshúileach í. -- She is green-eyed.
Tá mé dall. -- I’m blind.


Interesting. I've seen bay horses described as "donn rua," which seems a closer description of their actual color. I wonder if "buí rua" refers to a lighter dilution of bay, such as buckskin?

Redwolf


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