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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan 2014 7:37 pm 
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Go hálainn - Redwolf, What does this word mean? lol

And as for pissed off, I'm considering using: 'But then, I've never gotten her up to ninety." But I think maybe pissed her off sounds better?


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan 2014 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 6:15 pm
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Redwolf wrote:
NO ONE in Ireland EVER says "Top o' the mornin' to you"! Seriously! That's "stage Oirish"...music hall shite that was created to make FUN of the Irish! Strike it out, please, and forget you ever thought of it!

Although I agree that the term "Top of the Morning" has become to be perceived as insulting, largely due to its overuse in stage Irish and Hollywood, I don't think it is correct to say that it was invented by the music halls.

It predates vaudeville in literature by nearly a hundred years: There is a picture of the 1796 use here

It also appears to have been fairly typical of Hiberno-English around the time of vaudeville:
Quote:
In his much-loved book English As We Speak It In Ireland (1910), P. W. Joyce reported that the expression was used throughout the country; a century later, this is no longer the case.
(http://www.macmillandictionaryblog.com/ ... o-yourself)


The following comment on the same site as the 1796 picture above also shows some remnant usage of the English expression in Ireland:
Quote:
my Galway father-in-law is heading for 80 and uses it so it may be his generation. (2011)


So, yes, it has gone out of fashion, and yes, it has become stigmatised by association with Vaudeville and Hollywood, but no, they didn't make it up or invent it. It was already there.



As for the origins in Hiberno-English, there is an Irish phrase Mora na maidne dhuit still used by older speakers in the Gaeltacht that could possibly be the origin. And some sources suggest that the response Agus an chuid eile den lá dhuit féin. is/was appropriate (albeit an old woman from Cork as quoted by her grandson).

Mora dhuit or Mór dhuit is translated as "Hail" by Dinneen:
Quote:
mór; used like Dia as in the salutation, Mór is Muire is Pádraig dhuit; the Sun, tá Mór 'na suidhe, the sun is up; Mór dhuit, hail! Mór do bheatha, hail!


That doesn't change the fact that the phrase "top of the morning to you" has become a cliché, of course, just that some of the adverse reaction may be as much a caricature as the phrase itself.

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