First you have to be clear when you want to use Irish and when you want to use English. For example, "Inishmore" is the English name of the island, and if you're speaking or writing in English, that's the correct spelling. The Irish name is Inis Mór. If your character is meant to be speaking Irish, that's the form you'd use.

Same thing with Brendan/Breandán. "Brendan" is an Anglicized form of the Irish name "Breandán." If your character is speaking Irish, or uses an Irish form of his name, you want Breandán. Often Irish people have both Anglicized and Irish forms of their names, and switch depending on what language they're using.

See my notes on "Sárálainn." Even if you end up using it (and I'm with Breandán in thinking that it might not be appropriate or natural), you can't put it BEFORE 'bean'...it has to come after, and be inflected for the fact that it's modifying a feminine noun.

I wouldn't use it in any case, to be honest. If you're going to use Irish, use idioms that are natural to the language.

"Bridget" isn't actually an Irish name...it's Danish.

Again, what form of the name you use depends on your character. Does she live in a Gaeltacht? Is she an Irish speaker? Is she being spoken of in Irish? If so, you'd want the Irish form of her name, which in contemporary spelling is "Bríd." I would guess the closest Anglicized form would be Brigid, but again, be aware that you're speaking English at that point, and it will be pronounced as in English: BRIJ-id.

Wait for more.

Redwolf

I'd prefer Inis Mór in English too, since it looks nicer


Is this just a pseudo Celtic thing as I can find the Irish for it on the net? The March equinox is Cónocht an Earraigh


'Spéirbhean' would sound better to my ears here


- Amadán is used in the West, yes
- Toilet is leithreas. 'Jacks' is an English word. Are you mixing Irish and Hiberno English and slang terms in the characters' speech?
- Brighid is often 'Breej' in pronunciation
- A mhuirnín and a rún mo chroí are romantic while a rúnshearc is more passionate


I don't understand what you mean. This is the modern spelling

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I suppose I should've given a bit more background on the series so you have a better understanding of what I’m writing. All four books are based (sometimes loosely) on Celtic mythology. So please remember that I used a heavy dose of creative license to make these multiple myths/legends work together!

I've made the Na Fomóirí (Fomoire) the evil bad guy in the series. The Tuathe Dé Danaan have been made into a race of gods that rule Ireland before man’s arrival. The whole series is set up around the Four Treasures of Light myth.

The ‘myth’ (as I’ve made it) is that the Tuatha defeated the Na Fomóirí and cast them back into the sea. They then created the four treasures to guard Ireland, should the Na Fomóirí try to regain control. When man arrived in Ireland (Sons of Mil in this story), the Tuatha knew men were destined to rule Ireland and retreated to the underground places (I refer to them as Hy Breasail and Tir na nÓg).

They entrusted the treasures with four guardians (I use the three high kings here {Téthur MacCecht, Ćethur MacGreine, Éthur MacCuill} and Amerigin White-Knee) These guardians would be the keepers of the treasure, passing them on to their descendants. The Tuatha send three goddesses to marry the three high kings, to aid them in protecting the treasures. The series has magic in it {creative license used here-a mix of Wiccan and Druidism).

The goddesses marrying with the kings provided a powerful magic (I won’t say demi-god here for risk of sounding like all those Teen authors that are out right now), that passed to their descendants. (I’m still working on how Amergin’s line was able to do this, as they only sent 3 goddesses but that’s book 4 and I’m not there yet... lol) Fast forward a few thousand years to modern day Ireland where the descendants are living their lives normally, not expecting the Na Fomóirí to come back in their lifetime.

In book 1, American Morgan MacQuill is escaping from an abusive husband with her newborn son. At her Aunt’s insistence, she goes to Doolin, where her family, that she’s never met, has offered her sanctuary. Her arrival sets of a chain of events, awakening a power she didn’t know she had and signaling the start of the Na Fomóirí’s return. Book 1 centers on Morgan and her sexy (of course) neighbor Quinn MacGreen as they battle to guard Lugh’s Spear. Quinn is a descendant of the MacGreine king and Morgan is a descendant of the MacCuill king.

In book 2, Brighid MacQuill, (Morgan’s Irish cousin) has to re-hash old feelings when her first love (and brother of her best friend) Dermot Callaghan, returns to Ireland after breaking her heart six years ago. The Na Fomóirí attacks Brighid, revealing that she in fact is the guardian of Dagda’s Cauldron.

In book 3, Margaret (Maggie) MacGreen (Quinn’s sister) finds a man on the beach after his ship sinks near the Cliffs of Moher. She brings him to her house to tend to him and when he wakes, he has no memory of who he is. The Na Fomóirí tries to take control of him and his memory comes back. His name is Breandán MacKeet (from Kilronon, Inis Mór) and he is the son of a MacCecht descendant. He finds out that the Na Fomóirí had raped his mother in hopes that the child’s parentage would make him easier to control. Brendan discovers he is the guardian of the Sword of Nuada.

In book 4, Erin Whitney (a friend of Maggie’s from university) is an investigative journalist, arriving in Ireland to write a story on Morgan and Quinn and the mysterious death of Morgan’s ex-husband nearly four years ago. She meets her new neighbor, Ian MacQuill (Brighid’s twin brother) and is both attracted and annoyed by him (it’s a romance series... lol). Ian has shunned his power for years and Erin’s journalist mind wants to know why. During her investigation, the Na Fomóirí attacks her. They discover that she is, in fact, the only living descendant of Amergin White Knee and is the guardian of Lia Fáil. A violent criminal that Ian helped put into prison (he is a barrister in County Clare) escapes from prison to seek his revenge. The Na Fomóirí uses him to try to eliminate Erin and gain the treasure. Ian must turn to and trust his power to save her.

So there’s the backstory. I’m an American author, so obviously I can’t have the characters speaking Irish all the time. They speak English and I tried to write in the ‘dialect/brogue’ into their speaking parts. They do use Irish words in their speech; I thought it would be more ‘authentic’ to have a bit of actual Irish words/names spread throughout the novels.

When speaking of the Na Fomóirí or when the ‘monster’ is actually speaking, they tend to use more Old Irish terms/names. When speaking to each other, they use the modern translations. Also the goddesses and high kings sometimes appear in 'visions' throughout the series. They tend to use the traditional/old Irish words but they speak English for the most part.

All of the characters are from the Doolin area (Munster dialect) save Brendan, who’s from the Aran Islands (Connacht dialect), Morgan (American English) and Erin Whitney (I haven’t decided where she’s from yet, not Ireland though). There are a few secondary characters with other dialects ... Morgan’s Uncle and her ex-husband are American (Southern American English) and Quinn’s mother is from England (I haven’t decided which area but she speaks very crisp/proper English in the book).

As for the main character's names, I wanted to go more Irish with the names but there's so many different anglicized versions of everything that it's hard to find the right one. My biggest concern was Brighid (I originally had it as Briget after the goddess Brigid) but have had a lot of opinions of how to spell it. The second concern was Maggie (Margaret). Her mother is English and her father is Irish so it's not too big a deal to go with a non-Irish name there. I've already sorted out Breandán's name (originally spelled Brendan).

I hope that helps???

I would strongly, strongly urge you not to try to write "the brogue" into their speech. Writing in dialect (which is what Hiberno-English is), or attempting to represent an accent in writing, when you're not intimately acquainted with it (to the point of being a speaker of it) is a very dangerous, and potentially offensive, approach for an author to take.

That's not to say you can't use terms from Hiberno-English (such as "jacks"), but please, please don't try to write a brogue!

I'd be careful about throwing Wicca in there as well, unless you're speaking in a strictly contemporary sense. Wicca has nothing to do with traditional Irish paganism. Even though you're writing fiction, you're writing fiction set in a historical context and, as an editor, I can tell you that messing with history over-much can really piss off your readers!

Regarding the Irish language: Obviously if you're writing in English, most of your dialog will be in English, but when you DO use Irish, it really is very important that you use it correctly, which is why we keep belaboring the point of "sárálainn bean" being flat-out wrong. Perhaps the best thing for now is for you to just list the actual Irish terms you want your characters to use (and the circumstances under which they use them), and we can give you the correct grammar and spelling and a rough pronunciation. Then, perhaps, ask about Hiberno-English terms in another thread.

BTW, "na" means "the," so you would either say "Na Fomóirí" or "The Fomóirí"...never "the Na Fomóirí." It's also plural...did you intend that? (when you say you've made "Na Fomóirí" the bad guy, it sounds as if you're thinking of this term as referring to a single individual.

Re the goddess: Her name is correctly spelled as we've given you (Brighid or Bríd). "Brigid" is the Anglicized form.

Redwolf

Just letting you know – na is the definite article in na Fomhóir(í) so there's no need for "the" – it's just Na Fomhóir or Na Fomhóirí

* crossed with Redwolf *

** edit:
Redwolf is definitely right on this one! A lot of people who'll be wanting to read your book will probably be pretty well versed in this sort of thing and I'm sure that they would appreciate accuracy and attention to detail when it comes to the finer points of druidism and history.

Ok so Ná is used for the... got it. I use Fomoirí in plural and singular. I refer to the race of Fomoirí and the one bad guy in the series in singular form.

As for the brogue... disappointed since I will have to do some major, major editing now but I don't want to offend anyone. What about using "aye" instead of 'yes' and "Tis" instead of 'it's' in dialogue? The majority of brogue I wrote (please don't laugh or be offended!) in was "ye' for 'you', 'don'na' for 'don't', 'can'na' for 'can't', etc. I guess my main problem was I wanted the reader (since a majority of them will be from the US) to be able to clearly understand when an Irish speaker is talking verses the American or British one without having to over-use something like 'He said with a thick Irish brogue' or 'She commented with an Irish lilt', etc. Does that make sense? Americans tend to be absolutely horrible at accents and tend to need things really 'spelled out' for them. And please don't let that offend you if you're American, though you'll probably understand what I meant.

As for the Wiccan/Druidism, I refer to the druidism more when the characters are relaying the old myths, etc. I don't go into much detail (animal sacrifice, etc. doesn't usually bode well with romance readers). The Wiccan is also lacking in a lot of specific details as I'd rather skim over the 'how-to' instead of going into detail and getting something wrong. The best example I can give is how Nora Roberts usually tackles her 'magical' elements in her books. The closest series I can think of is the Donovan Legacy series (Captivated, Entranced & Charmed). Really it's the Romance version of Wicca.

"Na," not "Ná." Again, you have to be careful with accent marks. "Na" is the plural form of the definite article "the" (the singular form is "an" in the nominative and "an" or "na," depending on gender, in the genitive). "Ná" has a variety of meanings, but "the" isn't among them!

I really, really, STRONGLY advise against trying to use dialect. For example, it looks like what you have there is a mixture of things that might be said in Ireland and things that might be said in Scotland (or perhaps in more northern parts of Ireland). If you're not a speaker of that dialect of English, or very, very, intimately acquainted with it, you're going to get things wrong, and it WILL bother your readers (not only Irish readers, but also Americans who are more familiar with Hiberno-English dialects).

For example, you cite "ye" for "you"...do you know under what circumstances an Irish person might use "ye" for "you"? (hint: it's akin to "youse" or "y'all" in certain American dialects). And do you know where in Ireland it's most likely to be used (and what its variations can be)?

Which brings up another issue: the fact that Hiberno-English dialects vary from one part of the island to another. Think of the U.S. on a much smaller scale...just as people in Texas speak differently from people in California, people in Cork speak English differently from people in Donegal. Seriously...you really have to be a expert to pull it off.

To be honest, you really don't have to make a big deal out of trying to help your readers distinguish who is Irish and who is English or American in your dialog. Maybe, when a character is first introduced, you might -- SUBTLY -- indicate that he or she is Irish by saying something along the lines of "X caught a trace of an Irish accent," but that's all you need. Your readers will fill in the blanks.

When you write in dialect, you run the risk of turning your characters into caricatures, and that is the absolute kiss of death...at that point you really WILL be offending people.

You might want to take a look at how other modern fantasy writers have handled this kind of thing: Gael Baudino, for example, or Ann McCaffery, or Mercedes Lackey. When they use dialect, they're almost ALWAYS doing it for exaggeration (for example, when someone is MOCKING an Irish accent, or pretending to be Irish).

The bottom line is, as I've said, your readers will fill in the blanks. If they know the character is from Ireland, they will either mentally supply the accent or they won't (and neither will undermine their appreciation of the story)

As far as the Wicca thing goes, the reason I mention it is it's a modern religion that was developed in England and the U.S., and differs significantly from traditional Irish religious practice. If you're writing about contemporary Wiccans living IN Ireland, that's one thing, but simply imposing a Wiccan gloss on traditional Irish paganism just won't work.

BTW, I AM American (California). I'm also a professional editor with a degree in literature (and a great fondness for contemporary fantasy), as well as an Irish speaker, so I'm not entirely coming out of left field with all this.

Redwolf

Thank you, Redwolf! And I never would've guessed you were American!

You've been very helpful in this post. I will probably not be posting for a while while I slog through majorly editing the books now :*( but when I get back to where I need to be I will double check the Irish words and slang. Next post I'll try to do one book at a time with the words so I'm not listing so many at the same time!

Thanks everybody who has posted advice! It is much appreciated!

-Amanda

I suggest you go and live in Doolin for a year, carefully acquainting yourself with the local dialect and customs while you edit the books.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

There you go! Field research is invaluable for an author!

Redwolf