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 Post subject: tógtha
PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan 2014 5:07 pm 
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is this correct to say .

An bhfuil sí tógtha leis an leanbh nua?
Is she taken with the new baby ?

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 Post subject: Re: tóghta
PostPosted: Sun 19 Jan 2014 9:17 pm 
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Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
is this correct to say .

An bhfuil sí tógtha leis an leanbh nua?
Is she taken with the new baby ?



That has my vote!

I have never used it quite like that, but I can see no reason to say it is incorrect!

Bhí mé chomh tógtha sin le mo neacht nua...
I was 'so taken' with my new niece...

Tá mé an-tógtha le mo neacht bheag...
I am 'very taken' with my little niece...

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 Post subject: Re: tóghta
PostPosted: Sun 19 Jan 2014 11:30 pm 
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Ó Dónaill has the following:

Bheith tógtha le rud
Thóg an madra leis na páistí láithreach
Tá siad tógtha i gceart le chéile



Braoin wrote:
Bhí mé chomh tógtha sin le mo neacht nua...
I was 'so taken' with my new niece...
Surely the use of 'chomh' as an intensifier is Béarlchas? It's ugly enough in English (dar liom)

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 Post subject: Re: tóghta
PostPosted: Mon 20 Jan 2014 3:58 am 
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Jay Bee wrote:
Ó Dónaill has the following:

Bheith tógtha le rud
Thóg an madra leis na páistí láithreach
Tá siad tógtha i gceart le chéile



Braoin wrote:
Bhí mé chomh tógtha sin le mo neacht nua...
I was 'so taken' with my new niece...
Surely the use of 'chomh' as an intensifier is Béarlchas? It's ugly enough in English (dar liom)

I think it is Béarlachas when used as an intensifier without a "result" or "consequence". That usage (without a "result" or "consequence") in English is very American. For that usage I'd recommend using an- as in Braoin's second example above.

But the parallel of the British English usage (i.e., followed by a "result" or "consequence") is in Dinneen as chomh ~ sin go ...

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Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
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 Post subject: Re: tógtha
PostPosted: Mon 20 Jan 2014 10:12 am 
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By the Use of so without a clause or intensifier do you mean something like

"I was so hungry"

as opposed to "I was hungry so I made something to eat"?

Is chomh employed in the same way then? it must have a effect or clause ?

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 Post subject: Re: tógtha
PostPosted: Mon 20 Jan 2014 4:06 pm 
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Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
By the Use of so without a clause or intensifier do you mean something like

"I was so hungry"

as opposed to "I was hungry so I made something to eat"?

Is chomh employed in the same way then? it must have a effect or clause ?

Not quite.

"I was so hungry." makes little or no sense in British English, though it's usage is creeping in as an Americanism.

In British English (and more traditional American English) "so" is used to introduce a clause describing degree, e.g. "I was so hungry I nearly fainted.", "He was so angry his face turned red." The "so" leads to the ensuing clause and the sentence doesn't make sense without that clause.

In American English, "so" has become an intensifier, a substitute for "very".

The Irish usage of chomh ~ sin parallels the older English usage. You need a clause and it is joined to chomh ~ sin by go.

Use of chomh ~ sin without a clause of degree occurs only in the negative or interrogative.

Níl sé chomh dona sin. "It is not _that_ bad."
An bhfuil sí chomh tógtha sin ? "Is she _that_ taken?" (referring back to another speakers description of her condition, for example.)

But you can't use it in the affirmative as you might in American English. So Tá sí chomh tógtha leis an leanbh nua.* doesn't make much sense. Better to use Tá sí an-tógtha leis. for that nuance.

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: tógtha
PostPosted: Mon 20 Jan 2014 6:22 pm 
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Since we were discussing it in the Slender R thread Daithí, th in Munster Irish often devoices the consonant next to it. In the case of adjectives like tógtha or scuabtha it also adds a helping vowel so tógtha is actually tócatha and scuapatha in pronunciation.

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 Post subject: Re: tógtha
PostPosted: Mon 20 Jan 2014 6:35 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Since we were discussing it in the Slender R thread Daithí, th in Munster Irish often devoices the consonant next to it. In the case of adjectives like tógtha or scuabtha it also adds a helping vowel so tógtha is actually tócatha and scuapatha in pronunciation.

Devoicing before th also occurs in Connacht Irish:

tócthaí and scuapthaí in Connemara.

tócaí and scuapaí in Cois Fhairrge.

No helping vowel here.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: tógtha
PostPosted: Mon 20 Jan 2014 6:51 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Since we were discussing it in the Slender R thread Daithí, th in Munster Irish often devoices the consonant next to it. In the case of adjectives like tógtha or scuabtha it also adds a helping vowel so tógtha is actually tócatha and scuapatha in pronunciation.


Often? Is there a rule ( with numerous exceptions) or is it just learn on a case by case basis?

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 Post subject: Re: tógtha
PostPosted: Mon 20 Jan 2014 6:54 pm 
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Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:
Since we were discussing it in the Slender R thread Daithí, th in Munster Irish often devoices the consonant next to it. In the case of adjectives like tógtha or scuabtha it also adds a helping vowel so tógtha is actually tócatha and scuapatha in pronunciation.


Often? Is there a rule ( with numerous exceptions) or is it just learn on a case by case basis?

An Lon Dubh is a scientist. He would never say "always" even if there was a 99.9999% correlation. :darklaugh:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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