List of the old dialects & kingdoms

AnBraonach · **Joined:** Sat 22 Sep 2012 5:40 pm **Posts:** 157

Salut Franc!

I'll let An Lon Dubh answer for himself but I think that's exactly what he was meaning. Not 'Scots' as in the language, but rather Scottish Gaelic influence on the Irish of north Antrim. God knows maybe there was some Scots (language) influence too!

I find it hard to read Scottish Gaelic, but more because I'm too lazy to learn the basics. However, I had a good chat with a native Gàidhlig speaker when in Scotland last year and we understood each other pretty well - although I think he was helping me a little as he had spent some considerable time in the Donegal Gaeltacht over the years...

Slán,

Domhnall

An Lon Dubh · **Joined:** Fri 30 Sep 2011 10:08 pm **Posts:** 1313

Yeah, I mean Scottish Gaelic influenced Ulster Irish.

franc 91 · **Posted:** Sun 05 Jan 2014 10:33 pm

A long long time ago when we're spending some time in the West on holiday driving around in an old 2CV (which was green of course) I vaguely remember listening to the local radio - it must have been in Donegal - and they had a guest who I'm certain was speaking Gàidhlig - and he was conversing with the others without any problem.

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

Quote:

A long long time ago when we're spending some time in the West on holiday driving around in an old 2CV (which was green of course) I vaguely remember listening to the local radio - it must have been in Donegal - and they had a guest who I'm certain was speaking Gàidhlig - and he was conversing with the others without any problem.

I think it depends what you're talking about, and it depends if you want to understand everything the other person says, or if understanding only the main words is enough. Because in my experience, unless a Donegal speaker learns Gaelic, in a conversation it's impossible for him to understand every word, because too many words are different and don't exist anymore in one language or the other

Dáithí Mac Giolla. · **Joined:** Sat 01 Jun 2013 8:46 pm **Posts:** 466

An Lon Dubh wrote:

I think the basic picture is supposed to be:
(by sub-dialects, these dialects have no standard names, so I've just made some up)

West Munster dialect: Kerry, Western Cork.
Déise: Waterford, Tipperary, Limerick, North and East Cork, Southern Clare, Kilkenny, Carlow, (Wexford?).

Western Connacht: Conamara, North Clare
General Connacht: Rest of Galway, South Mayo, Roscommon, Leitrim, Sligo, Offaly, Laois, Longford, Westmeath.
Northern Connacht: North Mayo, Western Cavan. (i.e. Connacht grammar with Ulster accent.)

Oriel Irish: Monaghan, East Cavan, Louth, Armagh, North Meath.
West Ulster: Donegal, Tyrone, Derry.
East Ulster: Derry, Antrim, Down.
Scots Ulster: Seaboard of Down and Antrim, Rathlin island.

Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare and South Meath are thought to have been related in some way to General Connacht, but it's not certain if it was essentially the exact same dialect or simply similar. Regardless, they appear to have been a "Connacht type" dialect.

Going on what your saying above it looked something like this so ?

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

The eastern coast of Ulster didn't talk Scottish Gaelic... The only place where one could say people talked a Scottish Gaelic dialect is Rathlin island. Antrim Irish etc are Irish dialects with some Scottish-like features (especially in morphology and sometimes in pronunciation).

Jay Bee · **Joined:** Tue 15 Nov 2011 7:35 am **Posts:** 1098

Nice map!

What would Fermanagh have spoken? I grew up in Leitrim and Fermanagh people don't sound (to me) like real Northies). Maybe they were influenced by Connacht a bit too or it was a mini Sprachbund with West Cavan

Derry would have been in the west of it, mixed with Tír Chonaill, would it not?

I wonder, how precise can we be in this?

Dáithí Mac Giolla. · **Joined:** Sat 01 Jun 2013 8:46 pm **Posts:** 466

Id agree with Lughaidh, I dont recall reading anywhere that Antrim coast spoke a dialect of Scots Gaelic. But im not an expert.

Did i read that the Rathlin Dialect was closer to Scotland than to Ireland?

Ive never read anything about Irish in Fermanagh, cant really find much either. Maybe they never spoke it.

obviously as well my placement of north connaght Irish cant be correct, why would the same dialect exist, divided by a much larger one?

The lines I drew are highly arbitrary, solely going on what Lon dubh said in a short post. Im sure it would be possible to make a more accurate map. but then how accurate could it really be, im sure there are areas where Déise Irish cross over and blend with all its neighbors as would all the other dialects?

Jay Bee · **Joined:** Tue 15 Nov 2011 7:35 am **Posts:** 1098

And what would they have spoken in Fír Manach? Pictish?!

To my intuitiion, Déise seems a bit big, but of course, I agree with you. There would have been shaded areas. Thomond, Ormond and Desmond might have been sub-sub dialects as well. We also consider Iar-Chonnachta to be asuib since we know so much about it

Dáithí Mac Giolla. · **Joined:** Sat 01 Jun 2013 8:46 pm **Posts:** 466

Jay Bee wrote:

And what would they have spoken in Fír Manach? Pictish?!

Atlantian, it was the last refuge of these people after the loss of their Civilization .

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