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PostPosted: Thu 17 Oct 2013 10:19 am 
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an té mholann an éigse, féach go maireann go deo

You could bring a consideration of metre into this. The sentence sounds good as it stands - although I can't find any evidence of such a proverb. Maybe it is meant to be a traditional proverb, but I just don't have a book of proverbs to check it against. But assuming the sentence is a correct quotation of a traditional phrase - the metre may explain why it is not go maireann sé.

Looking at the pronunciation, as people have said the relative particle is not pronounced before mholann, so we have:

an té
mholann
an éigse

féach
go maireann
go deo

All are breaths of 2 or 3 syllables. To say go maireann sé would intrude a 4-syllable breath group into this, and it would make it read like prose and not like poetry.

What I noticed was the ambiguity of the first clause. There are Irish dialects with the relative form of the verb, where "who praises" would be mholas, or mholanns in Connacht. Can Bríd tell us whether she uses the relative form? Does she say mholanns in her dialect in the right context? In those dialects, an té mholann an éigse and an té mholas an éigse would mean different things.

In standard Irish and in Munster Irish, an té mholann an éigse could either mean "he whom the poets praise", or "he who praises the poets", although logically the meaning must be the former.

I take the point that the future tense could have been used - but it could be "he lives forever" and not "he will live forever" - and once again poetical features can explain it. Mholann and maireann kind of balance each other - two verbs starting with m that have rhyming ending.

You could also say the an...an..., ....go...go... is also some kind of literary device.

Also: look at the stressed vowels. tÉ, mhOl, Éig (long short long), fÉAch, mAir, deO (long short long). There is a balance in this. Putting in sé would add in another long stressed vowel, spoiling the harmony. This sort of thing was considered very important in the days of the bards.


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PostPosted: Fri 18 Oct 2013 4:33 pm 
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Makes sense patrick, I was probably being far too literal-minded.

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PostPosted: Sat 19 Oct 2013 5:06 pm 
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patrickjwalsh wrote:
Can Bríd tell us whether she uses the relative form? Does she say mholanns in her dialect in the right context?


We do indeed.


Quote:
an té mholann an éigse, féach go maireann go deo


Maybe it is poetic license. But it is still odd in normal speech.

an té (a) mholann an éigse - is ok, maybe it's a particular éigse, or poets in general.
féach go maireann go deo - is wrong without a pronoun. Why say "féach" at all? And I think either "go maire sé go deo" or "mairfidh sé go deo" would be better.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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