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PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013 5:41 pm 
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Lughaidh...I don't know if it's an American thing or if it's just a "my family" thing, but there seems to be a perception that spending the time to learn a language that you don't "need" to speak and that gives you no economic advantage is a waste of time.


Yes, here too, many people, especially those who have no hobbies, don't understand that. 'S truaigh liom iad!
Btw, what I don't get isn't that, it's why they are saying Irish is a dead language while obviously they don't know anything about it, and if they know Irish is spoken, do they say that only in order to bother you?

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I've had people ask, for example, why I haven't spent all this time learning Spanish (which is economically useful in California) or a language that might come in handy while traveling, such as French, Italian, or German.


depends where you are travelling :) When people talk to me about "useful languages", usually I answer that a language is useful when you use it ; I use Irish everyday (and Breton too), while I wouldn't use Chinese nor Spanish because I don't plan to go to a Spanish- or Chinese-speaking country, I know nobody (personally) who speaks these languages and no English nor French...

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013 8:28 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
Lughaidh...I don't know if it's an American thing or if it's just a "my family" thing, but there seems to be a perception that spending the time to learn a language that you don't "need" to speak and that gives you no economic advantage is a waste of time.


Yes, here too, many people, especially those who have no hobbies, don't understand that. 'S truaigh liom iad!
Btw, what I don't get isn't that, it's why they are saying Irish is a dead language while obviously they don't know anything about it, and if they know Irish is spoken, do they say that only in order to bother you?

Quote:
I've had people ask, for example, why I haven't spent all this time learning Spanish (which is economically useful in California) or a language that might come in handy while traveling, such as French, Italian, or German.


depends where you are travelling :) When people talk to me about "useful languages", usually I answer that a language is useful when you use it ; I use Irish everyday (and Breton too), while I wouldn't use Chinese nor Spanish because I don't plan to go to a Spanish- or Chinese-speaking country, I know nobody (personally) who speaks these languages and no English nor French...


They typically DON'T know much about it. Then, when I explain it a little, they point out that nobody "needs" to speak it in Ireland, and that's their criteria for "dead," I guess. Stupid criteria, if you ask me, but there you are.

I guess it doesn't occur to some people that learning a beautiful language with which one has an emotional, if not hereditary, connection, can be as fulfilling an activity as learning to play an instrument or to paint.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013 8:34 pm 
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The choice of languages mental included in that list seems strange. I think they just wanted to put together an interesting list of minority languages, rather than a list of ten languages that are about to disappear.

I have often seen the statistic that every two weeks, somewhere in the world the last speaker of a language dies, and the language dies with them.

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013 8:38 pm 
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They typically DON'T know much about it. Then, when I explain it a little, they point out that nobody "needs" to speak it in Ireland, and that's their criteria for "dead," I guess. Stupid criteria, if you ask me, but there you are.


technically wrong, Ben told me he met a guy in Inis Oírr who couldn't speak English... :mrgreen:
And I think there are others.

Quote:
I guess it doesn't occur to some people that learning a beautiful language with which one has an emotional, if not hereditary, connection, can be as fulfilling an activity as learning to play an instrument or to paint.


yeah :) If you listen to some people, culture is a waste of time :)

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PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013 9:36 pm 
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mhwombat wrote:
The choice of languages mental included in that list seems strange. I think they just wanted to put together an interesting list of minority languages, rather than a list of ten languages that are about to disappear.

I have often seen the statistic that every two weeks, somewhere in the world the last speaker of a language dies, and the language dies with them.


Yeah...I think they were going for a sensationalist headline and chose poorly.

Mental Floss is actually one of our favorite magazines hereabouts...Anna's had a subscription for years.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013 9:37 pm 
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It genuinely seems to me that the only thing that is dead or at least dying is the old ridiculous functional and utilitarian arguments of the past. There are a few people who still maintain that opinion, but they really are dinosaurs in Modern Ireland, where there are Gaelscoileanna springing up everywhere, particularly outside the traditional Gaeltacht areas. The attitudes of the likes of Declan Myers etc are merely for copy and there are far too many Ireeshins like meself in positions that influence how these things go, particularly in the civil service. I was born in a Galltacht and speak irish everyday of my life, the same for some of my students, not all, but some and it grows and it grows....I think the language is in a healthier position now than it has been in a long time. Plus there are well over 100,000 B speakers of the language which seems to be a marker for its continued growth. Anyway, we are a stubborn people and whilst some of the old brigade wanted it killed completely, they did not get their wish and we continue. One cannot normally be truly Gaelic without the love of the language, the dialect of the rocks and stones and field and sea in this beautiful country. the music of what happens. Some of the Irish have failed, but the Gael, although colonised, have never been conquered and I would rather die than to relinquish my faith in this worldview....they'd have to bring tanks up Patrick street and still we would continue....(on the other hand we're very hard to get moving also :facepalm: hence not many strikes but I'm working on that with the union). The momentum of the Gaelscoileanna movement will not only- and is not only copperfastening the strength of the language and protecting her from death but is re-imagining her in a truly inclusive and Modern Ireland, outward looking, but nurtured in a sacred love of our past and traditions. For Christ sake, I would love to have seen the countenance of the conquered people like Declan Myers when the queen of England thought it important to salute the guests in Áras an Uachtaráin as Gaoluinn. Is it the case that the Queen of England thinks the Irish language more important than some of the Irish themselves? And if it is the case- then it really makes me laugh, because that attitude is being resigned to the shitheap of all the other shit ideas of this place, like Fine Gael's language policy and the new Junior Cert and the E-voting machines and joining the euro....etc etc....nonetheless, the majority of the people in Ireland stand full square behind the language, whether they can speak it or not, we have realised in time her great and relentless beauty and importance and as importantly how much better we are as a modern bi-lingual society...not everyone but it's growing. Whatever that article said I would take it with a pinch of salt or send 'em over to me for em "re-education" :aingeal:


Up the rebels all of us, in cork and kerry all around Ireland and all around the world!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013 11:34 pm 
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true for you, Rossai. It's often been said, half in jest, that the surest way toget the Irish speaking Irish would be to forbid it


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PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013 11:37 pm 
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Redwolf wrote:
Lughaidh...I don't know if it's an American thing or if it's just a "my family" thing, but there seems to be a perception that spending the time to learn a language that you don't "need" to speak and that gives you no economic advantage is a waste of time. I've had people ask, for example, why I haven't spent all this time learning Spanish (which is economically useful in California) or a language that might come in handy while traveling, such as French, Italian, or German.
I think this is the situation in countries that are mainly English-speaking. Many people use the 'need' argument, but they do mean 'need' in the sense of trade etc. They ignore the 'need' of cultural identity, sense of ownership, history etc. English-speaking countries are lazy about languages. Two thirds of the world's population is bilingual - I bet not too many of that statistic come from English-speaking countries.

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PostPosted: Sat 08 Jun 2013 2:08 am 
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I think this is the situation in countries that are mainly English-speaking. Many people use the 'need' argument, but they do mean 'need' in the sense of trade etc.


many French people think like that too. Even native speakers of minority languages.
I heard certain Breton native speakers telling me "instead of studying Breton you'd better learn English" -- then I answered "I already speak English" -- and then they shut their mouth :darklaugh:

Quote:
English-speaking countries are lazy about languages.


France too :darklaugh:

Quote:
Two thirds of the world's population is bilingual - I bet not too many of that statistic come from English-speaking countries.


Léigh mé in alt ineacht go mbaineann 1/4 do na Meiriceánaigh úsáid as teangaidh eile (nach Béarla) sa bhaile. Spáinnis don chuid is mó ach teangthacha eile fosta.
Agus sílim fosta go bhfuil níos mó ná 2 theangaidh ag a' chuid is mó do dhaoiní an domhain, mar shompla i dtíorthaí ina bhfuil cuid mhór teangthacha beaga, canúintí, agus níos mó ná teangaidh oifigiúil amháin mar shompla, nó rudaí mar sin. Ins an Afraic, is minic a bíos 3 nó 4 theangaidh ag na daoiní: canúint a mbaile bhig, teangaidh an cheantair, teangaidh an phobail is cóngaraí, agus an teangaidh oifigiúil, nó na teangthacha oifigiúla... Rud céarna i gcuid don Áise... Níl an t-ádh orainne ins na tíorthaí seotha - iarthar na hEorpa, SAM srl. Dá mbeadh 3 nó 4 theangaidh againn ó bhí muid 'nár bpáistí, bheadh sé i bhfad níos fusa againn teangthacha eile a dh'fhoghlaim! :)

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PostPosted: Sat 08 Jun 2013 3:29 am 
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I say people who call Irish "dead" in my presence are at risk of being "deaded" themselves. :ninja:

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