I'm reading 'Learning Irish' by Micheál Ó Siadhail. Along with the usual things about broad and slender consonants, it says: and gives these examples:

This is not my first textbook on Irish (and Cois Fhairrge dialect in particular), but it's the first time I've encountered these nuances, and I'm slightly confused by them. In my native language (Russian) almost every consonant has its palatalised version, so I have no trouble distinguishing and pronouncing broad and slender consonants in Irish. The difference between lá and leáigh is very clear to me. But I can hardly hear any difference between double slender and single slender 'l'. 'N' is somewhat easier, but also quite difficult to catch. I have the audio recordings that go with the book, but they didn't help much in this case.

I know it's hard to actually describe a sound, but can someone please explain how the organs of speech should be positioned to produce the double slender 'l' and single slender 'l' sounds? Or, if someone could provide an audio of a person who pronounces these sounds clearly, that would be very helpful.

Thank you very much in advance.

The easiest way I can explain the difference is that the sound coming after the single slender consonants is ih /i/, but in the case of the double slender consonants it is yih /ji/ with a definite glide.

In the case of final consonants, the difference won't be noticeable until a word starting with a vowel follows.

buille /biL´ə/ BWIL-yih
buile /bil´ə/ BWIL-ih
caill is ... /kɑ:L´əs/ KAWL-yiss
cáil is ... /kɑ:l´əs/ KAWL-iss
cinneadh /kiN´ə/ KIN-yih
cine /kin´ə/ KIN-ih
Spáinn is ... /spɑ:N´əs/ SPAWN-yiss
'spáin is ... /spɑ:n´əs/ SPAWN-iss

I will try to do some sound files for you shortly ...

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

This distinction doesn't exist in the dialect I speak (Munster) with the exception that double slender n is pronounced [ŋʲ].

For dialects with the distinction, I've seen it described as "fortis" (double) vs "lenis" (single). I believe I understand how those terms apply to stops, but I find it much more difficult to understand how the apply to sonorants.

I've also seen the claim that the double slender n is pronounced as a true palatal nasal ([ɲ]) as opposed to a palatalised alveolar nasal ([nʲ]), and similarly for double slender l vs single slender l. I'm not sure whether this is really true and, if so, how it applies to their broad counterparts.

I'd love to hear sound files of those as well...

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Roibeard

Here are some sound files for Cois Fhairrge dialect:

..buille /biL´ə/ BWIL-yih

..buile /bil´ə/ BWIL-ih

..caill is /kɑ:L´əs/ KAWL-yiss

..cáil is /kɑ:l´əs/ KAWL-iss

..cinneadh /kiN´ə/ KIN-yih

..cine /kin´ə/ KIN-ih

..Spáinn is /spɑ:N´əs/ SPAWN-yiss

..'spáin is /spɑ:n´əs/ SPAWN-iss

As I was doing them, I had a think about the position of the tongue and I think you could say the tongue is pressed slightly harder and broader against the palate for the double slender consonants and there is slightly more "dwell time" as a result. The glide is produced by the tongue "peeling" back off. If that makes any sense. (NOTE: It is a common mistake of learners to overpronounce the glide on all slender consonants, making buile sound like buille, etc.)

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Tá sé go hiontach! Go raibh míle maith agat, a Bhreandán.
It really makes sense now. I definitely hear the glide, and to my ear the double slender consonant sounds slightly more tense than the single one.

For me, it's the other way round - I tend to omit the glide. Well, now I know what to work on.
Again, thank you for taking the time to make those files, they are really helpful.

You can hear them here too:
http://loic.cheveau.free.fr/irish/irish ... sounds.htm

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

The differences are negligible really Pangur. I wouldn't worry about it. We mix them up ourselves.

buille
buile

caill
cáil

cinneadh
cine

Spáinn
spáin

. .

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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Wow. Shows how much I still need to learn about Irish phonetics. Bookmarked.


I know, but still they exist, and I want to get them right and to be able to recognise and pronounce them.
Thank you for your sound file also!

Has anyone else noticed that we seem to be losing the ng sound in a lot of nn endings, The only person who seems to pronounce Sinn Féin (Shing Fayne) correctly is our dear old Mr.Paisley. Gerry Adams seems to pronounce it SHIN. Another loss seems to be the Y glide in slender vowel words like cionn (cyun), ceart (cyart)etc.