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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 4:47 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
Seaghan wrote:
The Scots have equal claim to some of them.

Greater, even, given that many of these are attested in written Scots literature long before they appeared in English.

Consider, for example, that "loch" appears in Scots intact, yet in Hiberno-English it became "lough" due to English spelling norms. Then look at "pibroch" and you know it has to have come to English via Scots, even before looking it up in a dictionary.

Never write a list of loanwords without checking a dictionary -- and this isn't just a question of Scottish Gaelic vs Irish, because you get the same problems with Spanish people claiming a word in English as Spanish, or Italians claiming it as Italian, when in truth it came to English via French.


I doubt that anyone is 'claiming' anything as being of either Irish or Scottish provenance. As for searching the dictionary, I should have thought that everyone would have been aware that 'Strontium' for example is named after the village in Scotland, Srón an t-Sithein, no discussion needed on the origin of that word ! The rest are, as we know, variously from either Gaidhlig or Gaedhilge.
Either way, the only people who ever bothered to make much of a distinction have been English people, for the purposes of conquest and conflict, trying to drive a wedge between what was at the time a common cultural area. The Irish speakers of both sides of Sruth na Maoile tended to consider themselves as one people, any distinctions that were made, tended to be from outsiders.


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 5:34 pm 
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I was taught in English class that slogan was from the Irish and Webster;s gives it as ScGael sluagh-ghairm, a war cry.Baltimore is baile tí mór, possibly from the town in Cork by the same name. Gulp comes from ag alpadh, swallowing.Slug is slog, swallow Gaum or gom is from gamal. a fool


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 6:49 pm 
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beagle wrote:
I was taught in English class that slogan was from the Irish and Webster;s gives it as ScGael sluagh-ghairm, a war cry.Baltimore is baile tí mór, possibly from the town in Cork by the same name. Gulp comes from ag alpadh, swallowing.Slug is slog, swallow Gaum or gom is from gamal. a fool


Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 6:52 pm 
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Quote:
The Irish speakers of both sides of Sruth na Maoile tended to consider themselves as one people, any distinctions that were made, tended to be from outsiders.


it depends, in Donegal Irish, a common word to say "Protestant" is "Albanach"... Do they consider they (Catholics) are the same people as Protestants? Not sure. And Donegal Gaeltacht people often went to work to Glasgow, which was English/Scots-speaking...

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 7:53 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
The Irish speakers of both sides of Sruth na Maoile tended to consider themselves as one people, any distinctions that were made, tended to be from outsiders.


it depends, in Donegal Irish, a common word to say "Protestant" is "Albanach"... Do they consider they (Catholics) are the same people as Protestants? Not sure. And Donegal Gaeltacht people often went to work to Glasgow, which was English/Scots-speaking...


I was of course referring to the time long centuries before people went to work in Scotland as tatie pickers, or to Glaschu to work in the shipyards etc. to the time when religious differences weren't a consideration, to the time when Irish was spoken on both sides of Sruth na Maoile ie more than 400 years ago.
One doesn't even have to go so far back as that to hear of the language being spoken of as Irish, on both sides of the sea. The Highlanders were referred to as 'Irish scum' when being evicted, as late as the late 19th cent. There are written records of that. Why were they called Irish scum by the lowland police and British army, called in during the evictions ? Because they were Irish/Gaelic speakers, and had always been considered as no different from the Irish in Ireland itself. Several centuries ago, the English themselves made little or no distinction between the two groups.


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 9:09 pm 
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beagle wrote:
Gulp comes from ag alpadh, swallowing.


No, it doesn't. It's from Dutch/Flemish.

Quote:
Gaum, gom comes from gamal. a fool


What's a "gaum/gom" when it's at home?


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 9:32 pm 
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Gom , quite commonly used in the US, is a fool, klutz


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 9:46 pm 
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beagle wrote:
Gom , quite commonly used in the US, is a fool, klutz


Gam / a kind of amadán, to be heard in Port Láirge a lot.
Gaimbín / Gombeen


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 10:09 pm 
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Quote:
There are written records of that. Why were they called Irish scum by the lowland police and British army, called in during the evictions ? Because they were Irish/Gaelic speakers, and had always been considered as no different from the Irish in Ireland itself. Several centuries ago, the English themselves made little or no distinction between the two groups.


yes, in the XVIIIth century and before, Scottish Gaelic was often called "the Irish language", or Erse, which is an old name for Scottish Gaelic (although now it's derogatory), which derives from the word "Irish".

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013 11:53 pm 
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Gaimbín ( dim. of gamba) or gombeen in English is not the same as a gom. The gom is a fool, but a gaimbín is an usurer, a money lender, glic. He's the type you'd say "would take the eye out of your head, and tell you that you look better without it" Gaimbín is also a lump of tobacco.


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