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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2012 3:23 am 
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I'm having a heck of a time with an idiomatic translation for this Christmas song. Any help appreciated!

Irish lyrics first...my attempt below (brackets are the bits I'm especially unsure of):

Rug Muire Mac do Dhia
Íosa Críost, Triath na Reann,
Maireann dá éis ’na hÓigh,
An bhean is dóigh do gach dall

Buime ’s Máthair Mhic Dé, Bhí
Bean mar í ní fhaca súil
Bean le’r oscladh Flaitheas Dé
Do mholfas mé ós gach dúil

Ní cosúil í le mnáibh
Muire Mhór, an bláth nach críon
Ní cosúil balsam le moirt,
Le lionn goirt ní cosúil fíon

Mary bore a son to God
Jesus Christ, Prince of [?]
Living ever after as a virgin
[The woman an example to the blind]

Caregiver and Mother of God's son,
A woman such as she was never seen
A woman who opened the gates of God's Heaven
That I would praise in every respect.

She is unlike [other] woman
Great Mary, the unwithered flower
[As balsam is unlike wine filled with bitter dregs.]

These are for liner notes, so I really, really don't want to get them wrong.

GRMA,

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2012 6:39 am 
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Location: An Astráil
na Reann "of the stars/planets" :?:

dóigh "source of expectation/hope" is dóigh "the greatest source of hope" :?:

dall "an uninformed person" :?:

Be sure to get confirmation before getting anything "inked". ;)

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
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Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2012 12:23 pm 
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Quote:
[The woman an example to the blind]


maybe "The woman that is visible even to the blind"?
(since "is dóigh liom" = it seems/looks to me...)

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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2012 2:19 pm 
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Thanks guys. It's a gorgeous song, but also one of the more convoluted language-wise I've seen in a while. Songs are always a bit dicey anyway, because you run into so many older or local constructions, as well as poetic license.

What do you think about that last verse?

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2012 5:25 pm 
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v2 -Do mholfas mé ós gach dúil > Whom I shall praise above all living things/creatures/creation. I only have Foclóir Póca and An Foclóir Beag (online version) - never quite got round to getting FGB or De Bhaldy - but I'm familiar with Dia na nDúl -'God of all creation'. However, if FGB gives 'in every respect', who am I to argue?

(I don't quite understand yon "Bhí)

v3 - lionn according to my FocPóc means "humour (of the body)", and An Foclóir Beag gives "colg, mighiúmar, crostacht" - so, literally: balsam/balm is not like dregs/lees; wine is not like "bitter humours", but I 'd say you've paraphrased it ok.


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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2012 6:55 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
v2 -Do mholfas mé ós gach dúil > Whom I shall praise above all living things/creatures/creation. I only have Foclóir Póca and An Foclóir Beag (online version) - never quite got round to getting FGB or De Bhaldy - but I'm familiar with Dia na nDúl -'God of all creation'. However, if FGB gives 'in every respect', who am I to argue?

(I don't quite understand yon "Bhí)

v3 - lionn according to my FocPóc means "humour (of the body)", and An Foclóir Beag gives "colg, mighiúmar, crostacht" - so, literally: balsam/balm is not like dregs/lees; wine is not like "bitter humours", but I 'd say you've paraphrased it ok.


Thanks!

I'm not sure where that "Bhí" comes from either...definitely part of the text, though. I wonder if it was supposed to be "í"?

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2012 9:22 pm 
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Quote:
Do mholfas mé ós gach dúil


bhfuil tú cinnte go bhfuil síneadh fada os cionn an o in "os" ?

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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2012 9:33 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
Do mholfas mé ós gach dúil


bhfuil tú cinnte go bhfuil síneadh fada os cionn an o in "os" ?


My understanding is that "os" can be written with or without a fada.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct 2012 10:55 pm 
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That "bhí" is definitely odd. I listened to a recording of the song by a different artist on-line, and there's definitely something there that begins with a "v" and ends with an "ee" sound (this other artist appears to be saying "vwee," which I assume is a southern pronunciation of "bhuí," but still doesn't seem to make sense in context).

The only thing I can think of is the "Bhí" belongs to the next line:

Bhí bean mar í ní fhaca súil

But it seems a very odd way to phrase it.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct 2012 12:46 am 
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Quote:
Máthair Mhic Dé, Bhí


D. Webb (the author of the blog about Cork Irish) suggests that "Bhí" is an old genitive of "beó", so:
Máthair Mhic Dé Bhí = the mother of the son of living God.

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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