it's possible to speak Gaeltacht Irish outside the Gaeltacht... I speak Gaeltacht Irish and I live in Brittany. My friend Ben lives in Derry and he speaks Connemara Irish.



but the question is: do they all speak good Irish in the Gaelscoltacha?



your argument doesn't work, because English has been transmitted from generation to generation for centuries without interruption. They have borrowed French words but that's all, English has remained very different from French and from other languages. It's not French in disguise, it's not a language that hasn't been mastered by learners... You can't compare the natural evolution of a language like English, with the gap between native Irish and the Irish spoken by learners who don't master the language.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Its not my anology its Prof Ó Broins! And the comparison comes from this new middle english spoken in southern england greatly changed old english with its borrowings and grammar etc, in the same way that urban Irish is taking gaeltacht Irish and borrowing from English. Middle english then began spreading over english taking over the 'purer' old English, in the same way Urban Irish might take over Gaeltacht Irish. The situation is slightly different as you say, but the principle is the same the a language can take on influences from another language, mutuate and then overtake traditional dialects, its been happening since man started opening their mouths. I know you are talking about continuous transmission, the 3000 families who do have home Irish in the Gaeltacht has held at that number for 30 years so we have reason to be optomistic a small well of gaeltacht Irish will survive, despite it becoming less and less a community language outside the home, but the growth in families raised outside the Gaeltacht with Irish has risen 10 fold in the last 30 years, the number of Gaelscoileanna has risen 20 fold in the same period, if that trend continues Gaeltacht Irish will be overshadowed by this Urban Dialect.

When we talk about Irish revival, it is not possible to maintain 'pure' unbroken transmission for the growth of the language, if irish wants to survive I believe believe it will be in urban Irish. And I agree Irish will lose something, it already has, and that continues even in the strongest Gaeltachtaí recent studies are showing the newer generations are using less outside school and to a less high standard.

By the way, im gonna make a pact with my self to start spending my time learning Irish rather than talking about it!!

yes it would be possible. 3000 families is quite a lot.

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Now there's a thought! I find it hard to count all the people who I hear in my life talking about Irish or "I'd love to learn Irish!!!," etc.; it is easier, much easier, to count those who speak or attempt to speak it to me.
Dála an scéil, go n-éirí an t-ádh leat a Shomhairle!

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Bí cinnte de go nglacfaidh triúr le gach aistriúchán a thabharfar.
Be sure to get three in agreement with a translation given.

Dá mbeadh achan nduine in Éirinn gomh cúramach linn le Gaeilg mhaith a labhairt, creid mé, cha dtógfadh an tUrban Irish áit na Gaeilge cirte go brách, agus mhairfeadh 'n Ghaeilg mhaith go deireadh na cruinne
Labhair í agus mairfidh sí; muna labhrann tú í glacfaidh 'n tUrban Irish a háit!

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

go raibh maith agat a Bhraoin, leanfaidh mé ar aghaidh agus ní beidh mé ag labhairt faoin Gaeilge níos mo, bhoil, níl an oiread sin ar aon chaoi Agus a Lughaidh, ádh mór, tá súil agam go mbeidh an Ghaeilge Gaeltachta ann i 100 bliain. Ach tá Urban Irish anseo, i mBÁC, agus ní shílim go bhfuil sé ag fanacht.

My two cents on this.

dublin is getting its own dialect it is there and it is growing there is a language leveling happening in dublin at the moment there is good speakers and bad speakers and they are all listening and teaching the kids it is not a new dialect at the moment but it will be and you know what it will be every bit as a authentic as conemara or donegal Irish. In dublin there are parents who attended the gaelscoils passing down there Irish to there kids and should be applauded for this.

Sure the dublin version of the language will change it slightly sure it will be infulenced by english just like our english was influenced by our Irish but does anybody say we dont speak english here the same thing will happen for Irish in my view.

I'm not as knowledgeable as most people here, but I'd be a little more hopeful if it wasn't for the data
on Professor Ó Broin's slide. According to the slides Urban Irish speakers don't distinguish between slender and broad consonants, don't eclipse and don't lenite between 50-85% of the time when they should. Some of the results for urban chat shows (which I assume are things like Radio na Life) are always around the 70% mark.

Maybe somebody with more knowledge than me can explain this to me. At least the way I've learned Irish I don't how you could distinguish plurals or the different cases if you did this. It sounds pretty bad to me, or maybe I'm missing something?

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Thats a good point Cytex, of course irish-english is just as valid as english-english, though I'm sure when English started to be planted artificially in Ireland, English purists were saying "oh my god, they are not speaking proper English, the English language will die in Ireland, it wont be the same". But today it is just another dialect of English, as much valid as english-english. The same thing is happening where Irish is being 'planted' (for want of a better word) in areas where Irish hasn't been spoken for hundreds of years. So yeah I agree with you 100%

@an lon dubh, I'm not a linguist either, but I wouldn't interpret them as errors in grammar or speech, just different, in the same way that a Yorkshire person speaks English, imagine a London academic studying his English and hes saying things like "aup me duck, give me a couple of pound & i'll go t't shops", I'm sure they would class it as 'wrong' or an 'error' too over standard English. In English the plural for sheep is sheep, we just know its the plural from context, I'd assume thats the way Dublin Irish speakers differentiate.