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PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul 2012 11:17 pm 
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We’ve probably all lamented the fact that new translation requests at ILF are somewhat thin on the ground lately. Like others, I sometimes look back at IGTF to see how it’s going. It seems to be limping along, mostly with the help of just a few translators (who don’t all seem to get along), but it does get a half dozen or more new translation posts per day. I was thinking about what the issues are to getting some of those posts to ILF, and I have a few suggestions. Please don’t jump all over me about these thoughts – they are just suggestions.

My first suggestion has to do with something which I started doing today. I saw an interesting request for a Scottish Gaelic translation at IGTF, and I decided to treat it as if it had been posted at ILF, and respond to it here instead (some things do get posted both places, but not most of the newest posts). I see several advantages which might result if we were all to do this from time to time (or even regularly). The first one is that it would provide a lot more practice (and a learning experience) for those of us who are learners, especially if we are the first one to take a crack at a post, and the fluent speakers will also have more practice at correcting us, with more of the give-and-take that was present at the old forum. If it were done over a long period, this would also enable ILF to develop a more extensive archive of translations, and it would increase our footprint on search engines, since we’d have a lot more hits for their bots to pick up and add to their search paradigms (that’s the wrong word, but I can’t think of the right one).

My other suggestions have to do with the naming and structure of ILF. Braoin and others have done a super job of organizing things, and tinkering with the arrangement, but I was trying to figure out some specific things which might be depriving us of new posts, and letting IGTF snag them, so I have these suggestions:

(1) I think people who were active on IGTF all know about ILF, since they will have followed the controversy as it played out. However, I think IGTF snags many posts from new people, or people who have gotten a translation at IGTF before and can’t remember exactly where they got it, simply because it has the words “Gaelic” and “Translator” in its name. Most overseas people of Irish ancestry are still unaware that the language is called “Irish”, and so the searches they do are likely to include only the word “Gaelic” when it comes to the name of the language. Similarly, people new to these sites are likely to use some form of the word “translate” in their search criteria, rather than a form of the word “learn”. Thus, my suggestion is to change the name to something like “Irish & Gaelic Learning and Translation Forum” (IGLTF). I think that search engines would pick up “translation”, no matter what form of the word the searcher used (I may be wrong about that, though). I did think about the possibility of IGLTF being too close to IGTF, so that someone who mistypes IGLTF might get to IGTF, but I'm thinking mostly of searchers who don't know about either site, and who will use words rather than something like IGTF or IGLTF.

(2) I think that, despite all the good tinkering with the structure which has already taken place, some people may still get a bit confused when they arrive here, and I have a fairly non-major suggestion for changes to help them. I think the first two forums listed on the Board Index should be renamed, as follows, putting the English names first to help new people find them quickly:
-- Irish (Gaeilge) Forum
-- Scottish Gaelic (Gàidhlig) Forum
and maybe the main heading for the next section (with the wombat etc. forums) should be something like “Specialized Forums”.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2012 1:59 am 
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Grma a Chaoimhín. You have some very good suggestions there.

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___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2012 8:57 am 
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I think I'm going to do a series of - 'this is one I did earlier' (when I have the time) :D


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PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2012 3:01 pm 
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I definitely think having the words "Gaelic" and "translator/translation" could help. Caoimhín's very correct in saying that people in the U.S., at least, are unfamiliar with the term "Irish." That's why Eoin kept the name "Irish Gaelic" on the old forum (and still uses it for Bitesize Irish Gaelic), and why Mary Mc Laughlin titled her book "Singing in Irish Gaelic." It may make people in Ireland cringe a bit, but it really is the best way to attract Americans who may not be up to date on the nomenclature.

Redwolf


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PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2012 11:44 pm 
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Some good suggestions there, a Chaoimhín, and worth a try - in fact, the administrators and moderators have been discussing some of these self-same matters in the back room since inception and have implemented a lot that most of our members probably aren't even aware of.

One thing to bear in mind, though, is that the main reason that the old place gets so many hits is that it is already ranked high in the search engines and is coasting on the momentum built up by years of posting, i.e., _our_ hard work.

Like a gigantic cargo ship, the old site will continue to coast for a long time even with its engines cut. We, on the other hand, have to work hard to rebuild our boat and get it sailing. If we did exactly the same things, they would still get most of the traffic simply because of their sheer size (what really sucks is that we all helped build their ship.)

Like a big lump of metal, or a black hole, the more "mass" (posts and other activity) a site accumulates the more "pull" it has in the search engines. Answering questions positively on the old site, however innocent, just adds to their activity, and worse, makes people think there is still a viable community there. This places new people in danger of receiving translations that haven't been properly discussed or can't be confirmed. The old safety mechanisms there are now gone.

Any activity attracts more activity, and that works the same here as it does there.

The only real way to attract people here to the Irish Language Forum is to continue to provide positive content here on the Irish Language Forum. We can't catch up with our old situation overnight, but already we have accumulated over 10,000 posts. Our rank has risen greatly in the search engines and continues to rise.

Mentioning our forum on other forums, etc., also increases the likelihood of people finding us.

Caoimhín's suggestion of asking parallel questions is excellent, and you will have seen me do this myself from time to time. A lot of it is material we originally provided for free and in good faith in the first place. The same questions have often recurred over the years anyway.

Mhwombat has also lead the way by reproducing a lot of her old learning materials here on the Irish Language forum.

If you do post old material or new questions, it is preferable not to link to or otherwise mention the old place any more. Let's move forward, not backward. Linking to other friendly and informative sites, on the other hand, is a good way to promote them and us at the same time.

By all means add "Gaelic" and "translation" to your posts and thread headings as much as possible and we'll look at changing the forum headings (although I have to say, the information is already stated there quite clearly :rolleyes: ), but I personally feel another change of name at this stage would just set us back to square one.

We are who we are and I don't think we really need to become a "clone" of the old site. We can easily be, and already are, IMHO, better.

Please don't let this discourage people from making suggestions. All suggestions are welcome and we administrators and moderators will continue to discuss the merits of each and every one and implement the better ones wherever possible and practical.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Sat 14 Jul 2012 11:49 am 
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Just a note to say I've adjusted the titles and explanations on the Board index. Let me know if they are still confusing. :wave:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2012 3:39 am 
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Quote:
Just a note to say I've adjusted the titles and explanations on the Board index. Let me know if they are still confusing


I think the changed headings look good, a Bhreandáin. Sorry, I should have mentioned you as being the tinkerer-in-chief.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jul 2012 9:15 am 
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If I may, I think you're all doing a fantastic job here.

A tiny suggestion I would make is add a link back to the forum in the registration confirmation email.

Out of every 100 people who find this forum, a small percentage will try to register, and even a smaller portion of those will end up posting on the forum. But as soon as they post on the forum they have the chance to get "hooked".

Breandán wrote:
The only real way to attract people here to the Irish Language Forum is to continue to provide positive content here on the Irish Language Forum.

I couldn't agree more with you, a Bhreandáin. There are always optimisations to make (and there will be an endless list), but all you interacting on this forum is what makes it.

Hope I don't offend by chiming in :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jul 2012 10:25 am 
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Eoin wrote:
Hope I don't offend by chiming in :oops:

Not at all. Suggestions from someone who led such a successful forum for so long are most welcome. :GRMA:

Eoin wrote:
A tiny suggestion I would make is add a link back to the forum in the registration confirmation email.

Thanks, that will make it easier for people to find us again if they've closed the browser after registering and forgot to bookmark the site. :yes:

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Thu 19 Jul 2012 10:42 am 
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Breandán wrote:
Thanks, that will make it easier for people to find us again if they've closed the browser after registering and forgot to bookmark the site. :yes:


Definitely - I waited overnight to have my account approved by a moderator, so I didn't have the site open any more.


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