It is currently Mon 13 Jul 2020 5:37 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug 2015 2:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 20 Aug 2015 1:41 pm
Posts: 3
Hello,

I've had this image saved on my computer for what seems like forever now and I can't remember where I found it but it seems to me to be Scottish Gaelic. I was hoping someone hear can confirm or debunk and if confirmed tell me what it says.

Many thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4ukksj545pwa9j/img1345.jpg?dl=0


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug 2015 3:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1521
tumcdan wrote:
Hello,

I've had this image saved on my computer for what seems like forever now and I can't remember where I found it but it seems to me to be Scottish Gaelic. I was hoping someone hear can confirm or debunk and if confirmed tell me what it says.

Many thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4ukksj545pwa9j/img1345.jpg?dl=0


It could either Irish or Scottish Gaelic.

I think the text reads as:

étach domnaill 'Donall's garment'

I am taking the first symbol to be the nod for agus agus, or -et- in Latin;* combined with -c- superscript, indicating et-(e)ac(h).*

the wavy superscript above the -0- in domnaill, definitely stands for -m-.

*it could also be ingenach, as the .i. could stand for ingen 'daughter', but this symbol is usually accompanied by an suspension stroke.

I would like to see it in context to be sure.

Cian

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug 2015 10:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2394
It's Old or Middle Irish. It can't be Scottish Gaelic because at that time, Scottish Gaelic didn't exist yet, it was identical to Irish, especially the written language.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 21 Aug 2015 1:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 20 Aug 2015 1:41 pm
Posts: 3
Once again thanks for all the help with this. I was doing some searching with Irish/Gaelic scripts and contractions and found this "How to" site and maybe this comes from the 1467 manuscript or something like it?

http://www.1467manuscript.co.uk/06%20how%20to.html

According to this site it could be mhic Domhnaill? What do you guys think?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 21 Aug 2015 1:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2394
You're right, I didn't know this "nod". :)

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2015 1:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 20 Aug 2015 1:41 pm
Posts: 3
Lughaidh wrote:
You're right, I didn't know this "nod". :)


If this is "mhic Domhnaill" I have a further question if I may ask. What is the meaning of 'mhic' itself? Is it similar to the 'mac' as in son or descendant of, perhaps a genitive case?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2015 9:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2394
Aye, "mhic" is the genitive case of "mac".
...mhic Domnaill = of Mac Donald, or "of the son of Domnall.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2015 9:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 1504
tumcdan wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
You're right, I didn't know this "nod". :)


If this is "mhic Domhnaill" I have a further question if I may ask. What is the meaning of 'mhic' itself? Is it similar to the 'mac' as in son or descendant of, perhaps a genitive case?


The word for "son" is mac, and when it is in the genitive (possessive) case it becomes mic ("of [the] son"). The addition of the "h" after the "m", to create mhac or mhic, which is known as lenition (or séimhiú in Irish) only happens as a result of certain things occurring before the word. As examples:

a mhac = his son
mo mhac = my son (when talking about him)
A mhic! (sometimes A mhac!) = "O [my] son!" (when speaking to him)

To get to the form Mhic Dhomhnaill, you would need some sort of possessive phrase. For example:
teach Mhic Dhomhnaill = "house of the son of Donal" = "house of McDonnell" = "McDonnell's house"

Another example is one the ways for a wife's name to be given. Women traditionally kept their maiden surnames after marriage, but a woman marrying a man named Mac Domhnaill could also be called Bean Mhic Dhomhnaill ("wife of the son of Donal" = "wife of McDonnell" = "Mrs. McDonnell").

_________________
I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 23 Aug 2015 6:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 468
'ic (as a reduced form of mhic) is often used to distinguish the clan name from the literal patronymic, or sometimes to split off a grandfather or great grandfather. I'm not too sure about the exact rules, though.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 24 Aug 2015 12:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 1504
NiallBeag wrote:
'ic (as a reduced form of mhic) is often used to distinguish the clan name from the literal patronymic, or sometimes to split off a grandfather or great grandfather. I'm not too sure about the exact rules, though.


I've seen it mostly in the full form of clan names, as in Clann 'ic Dhòmhnaill.

_________________
I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group