It is currently Mon 28 Sep 2020 9:40 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed 26 Sep 2012 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:44 pm
Posts: 3511
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
Dia dhaoibh, a lucht Gaeilge na hAlbain!

I'm doing a brief article on Scottish Gaelic vs. Irish, and I was wondering if you could answer a few questions for me?

I'd like to give my readers some ideas as to how the languages differ (other than in terms of pronunciation and spelling). For example, do I recall that Scottish Gaelic still uses the plural "you" in a formal sense (similar to the French "vous")?

Caoimhín, as someone who speaks both languages, I figure you've got a pretty good handle on this, but I figured I'd post the question rather than PMing, so others could address it as well.

Go raibh maith agaibh go léir! (sorry...I don't know how to say "thanks, all" in Gaelic!)

Redwolf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 26 Sep 2012 5:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2399
Quote:
I'd like to give my readers some ideas as to how the languages differ (other than in terms of pronunciation and spelling). For example, do I recall that Scottish Gaelic still uses the plural "you" in a formal sense (similar to the French "vous")?


that's right!
There are differences in conjugations too (in the future/present habitual, whether it's preceded by certain verbal particles or not: ceannaichidh mi / cha cheannaich mi...)... mutations... many things.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 26 Sep 2012 7:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:44 pm
Posts: 3511
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
GRMA. These articles are very short (between 400 and 1000 words), so I'm just going to touch on a few differences, as well on when and why the languages diverged. I'm including lots of links, so folks who are deeply interested in the subject can learn more.

Redwolf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 26 Sep 2012 9:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2399
One link with all the links (but you may know it already):

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaidhlig/gaidhlig.html

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012 1:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 1522
First off, I'm learning Gaelic, and I definitely do not speak it yet (by a l-o-o-o-ng stretch), and I'm certain that Lughaidh knows a heck of a lot more than I do.

There is one particular verb difference you might mention, which is that Gaelic has no simple present tense (except for the verb bi), leaving one to choose between the present progressive and the future. In most cases, the future is used where Irish would use the simple present, but the present progressive is also used.

An example of the use of the future tense:

Am feur a thig a-mach sa Mhàrt, thèid e a-staigh sa Ghiblean.
The grass that grows [will grow] in March disappears [will disappear] in April.

As an example of when the present progressive might be better, here's something I offered on the "old site", where the request was for "I call on my ancestors to walk with me":

Quote:
Tha mi a' gairm air mo shinnsearan a bhith a' coiseachd leam
I['m] call[ing] on my ancestors to [be] walk[ing] with me

Scottish Gaelic does not have a simple present tense ("I call"), and one normally has to choose between the present progressive tense ("I am calling") or the future tense ("I will call"). The future is often used where we use the simple present in English, but in this case the present progressive sounds better in Gaelic.

_________________
I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012 3:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2399
That's right, when Classical Irish had a present tense in -(a)idh (molaidh sé...) and a future tense in -f(a)idh (molfaidh sé), they merged in Scottish Gaelic, so they use the same ending -(a)idh for both now. In Literary Welsh and Cornish too, the habitual present and the future tense are identical...

In modern Irish, as you know, the present tense uses the old dependent form in -ann (in Classical Irish, you would say "molaidh sé" but "ní mholann sé" !), and has kept the -faidh ending for the future.
In old tales (told by seanchaíonnaí) for instance, you can still hear the old present in -(a)idh, but not in normal speech, I think.

What is interesting is that in Scottish Gaelic, they have kept different dependent and independent forms in the present/future for most verbs: the dependent forms lose the -idh ending. That's as in Old Irish, but Modern Irish has lost that.
Eg.
molaidh mi > cha mhol mi, gum mol mi, nach mol mi, am mol mi? etc.
èistidh mi > chan èist mi, gun èist mi, nach èist mi, an èist mi? etc.

while in Irish the ending is -ann and doesn't disappear (normally):
molaim > cha mholaim, go molaim...
molann sé > cha mholann sé, go molann sé...

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012 11:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 1522
That's a great explanation, a Lughaidh. I knew the present situation, but not how it came to be.

_________________
I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group