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PostPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2025 6:05 pm 
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Is fada Éireann do sheasaimh roinnt ag teacht aisti dhi. The English says 'It was drifting in from time to time'. Could anyone help explain how this sentence would give way to such an English translation? I'm having trouble understanding it.

The second sentence is Cad deire liom ná gur chaith amach an baighte the English is 'And what do you say if I didn't throw out the bait'. For the most part this makes sense to me, except for the verb forms, i.e. why is it not Cad déarfá ná gur chaitheas/caitheadh amach an baighte?

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2025 10:11 pm 
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Is fada Éireann do sheasaimh roinnt ag teacht aisti dhi.
For a very long time some of it continued to come from it to her?

Cad deire liom: Father Peter explained this in Notes on Irish Words and Usages:
Quote:
Cad deirir leis nár ghlac éad! (T.B.C., 182). "What do you say to him that didn't get jealous!" i.e., you never would have thought he would get jealous, but he did. Cad deirir leis nár dhiúltuigh! "What do you say to him that didn't refuse!" This nár is peculiar. It is negative, while the sense it expresses is strongly positive. The construction emphasizes the unexpectedness of the event. It is constantly in the mouths of speakers and is well under- stood both in the Irish and the English forms. In English it is sometimes shortened to — "and didn't he refuse!" contrary to all expectations, he refused.

Cad deire liom ná gur chaith amach an baighte means "and didn't I throw out the bait!" "You bet I threw the bait out".


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PostPosted: Tue 01 Apr 2025 10:38 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Is fada Éireann do sheasaimh roinnt ag teacht aisti dhi.
For a very long time some of it continued to come from it to her?


Thank you

djwebb2021 wrote:
Cad deire liom ná gur chaith amach an baighte means "and didn't I throw out the bait!" "You bet I threw the bait out".


Why is it deire here and not deirir, as Peadar Ó Laoghaire had? Is it just a typo? And why ná gur instead of nár, is this just an alternative form in the construction, which would mean that one could also say cad deirir leis ná gur ghlac éad?

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PostPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2025 1:03 pm 
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I believe deire is mentioned in Dinneen's dictionary as a variant.


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PostPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2025 1:05 pm 
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Séamus O'Neill wrote:
Why is it deire here and not deirir, as Peadar Ó Laoghaire had? Is it just a typo? And why ná gur instead of nár, is this just an alternative form in the construction, which would mean that one could also say cad deirir leis ná gur ghlac éad?


Father Peter had it as a negative phrase - and the whole issue of negative phrases in Irish deserves study - many things need to be phrased negatively in Irish. Maybe Ó Scanláin reinterpreted, and used ná go to mean "but that", which resolves the grammar more neatly, but as Hiberno-Irish has the negative translations that Ua Laoghaire mentioned, I expect he is more right. Is this in Dinneen's dictionary?


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PostPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2025 1:51 pm 
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I'd think:
ag teacht aisti dhi = when she is/was coming out of her/it

Deire is an older form for deirir.


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PostPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2025 2:10 pm 
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I found this in Dinneen's dictionary:

Quote:
nach, conj., (eclipses in modern Irish), that not; ó nach (colloq. uair nach), since not; go nach (go dtí nach), until not; assertive verb is omitted after nach (which does not then eclipse); is fíor nach díon dóibh crainn, it is true that trees afford them no shelter; before pf. tense it combines with ro becoming nachar, which see; after negatives, expressed or implied, ná go is used in M. for nach; the eclipsis caused by nach is quite modern; beag nach, beagnach, little but, almost, nearly.


Since you brought it up, do you know of any comprehensive list/study of Irish idioms that require the negative such as this and others like ní h-ar aon chuma amháin as Ó Laoghaire provided?

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PostPosted: Wed 02 Apr 2025 2:39 pm 
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No I don't have a list, but I'd like to find one.


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