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PostPosted: Wed 08 Jan 2025 3:05 am 
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'Téigheann scéal nua ort': On second thoughts, maybe it implies 'New stories [in the sense of adventures/experiences] go on [i.e happen to] you', thus suggesting that the 'fear siubhail' - considering all the things that would have happened to him on his travels - would be in a better position than the farmer to relate a story. But if so, I would have thought the plural 'scéalta' would be more appropriate.

'Scéal ort' seems to mean 'story about you'. Examples:

Chualas scéal breá ortsa: I've heard a fine tale about you (Ó Dónaill)
Má théann an scéal sin amach ort: If that story gets out about you (Ó Dónaill)
Tá scéal fada orthu: They are a remarkable lot. (Ó Dónaill)
Scéal eile a tharraingt ort féin: to digress (foclóir.ie)


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PostPosted: Wed 08 Jan 2025 11:18 am 
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De Bhaldraithe also translates ón uair go as "seeing that". https://www.teanglann.ie/en/eid/seeing

In colloquial English "seeing that" and "since" are kind of blended into "seeing(s) as" (pronounced "seens as"), which is what De B. is implying  ón uair go means.


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PostPosted: Wed 08 Jan 2025 3:35 pm 
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Caoilte wrote:
'Is ort a théigheann scéal nua': First, I'm not sure why it's 'Is ort', rather than 'Is ortsa'.


I think the reason that ort isn't emphatic (i.e. > ortsa) is because it is already being re-emphasised by the copula. It is a different kind of emphasis, how ever, as is ort a théigheann scéal nua relocates the focus of the sentence, changing the "natural" word order, whereas téigheann scéal nua ortsa specifically shows that it is you that the story is happening to. The meaning is very very similar but I believe there is still a difference.

Caoilte wrote:
'Téigheann scéal nua ort': On second thoughts, maybe it implies 'New stories [in the sense of adventures/experiences] go on [i.e happen to] you', thus suggesting that the 'fear siubhail' - considering all the things that would have happened to him on his travels - would be in a better position than the farmer to relate a story. But if so, I would have thought the plural 'scéalta' would be more appropriate.


Now that you say that, that would make a lot more sense, where ort is being used to express the person being affected. So, 'seeing that it is you that walks the lands, a new story is to happen/happens to you'?

Caoilte wrote:
'Scéal ort' seems to mean 'story about you'. Examples:

Chualas scéal breá ortsa: I've heard a fine tale about you (Ó Dónaill)
Má théann an scéal sin amach ort: If that story gets out about you (Ó Dónaill)
Tá scéal fada orthu: They are a remarkable lot. (Ó Dónaill)
Scéal eile a tharraingt ort féin: to digress (foclóir.ie)


I don't think that scéal ort in this context would mean 'story about you', as that would mean that téigheann would be being used in an intransitive way, i.e. 'a new story about you goes', which wouldn't make much sense, at least in my mind.

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PostPosted: Wed 08 Jan 2025 3:35 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
De Bhaldraithe also translates ón uair go as "seeing that". https://www.teanglann.ie/en/eid/seeing

In colloquial English "seeing that" and "since" are kind of blended into "seeing(s) as" (pronounced "seens as"), which is what De B. is implying  ón uair go means.


Thanks for pointing that out, David!

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PostPosted: Sun 12 Jan 2025 1:36 am 
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Séamus O'Neill wrote:
Caoilte wrote:
'Is ort a théigheann scéal nua': First, I'm not sure why it's 'Is ort', rather than 'Is ortsa'.


I think the reason that ort isn't emphatic (i.e. > ortsa) is because it is already being re-emphasised by the copula. It is a different kind of emphasis, how ever, as is ort a théigheann scéal nua relocates the focus of the sentence, changing the "natural" word order, whereas téigheann scéal nua ortsa specifically shows that it is you that the story is happening to. The meaning is very very similar but I believe there is still a difference.

Interesting. That seems to be a very subtle distinction. I'll have to think a bit more about that.


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PostPosted: Sun 12 Jan 2025 2:20 am 
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Séamus O'Neill wrote:
Oidhche amháin do bhuail fear siubhail isteach go tigh an fheirmeora so. Do bheannuigh an feirmeoir dó agus do bheannuigheadar araon dá chéile. “Seadh, a stróinséir,” arsa an feirmeoir, “ó’n uair gur tusa a bhíonn aig siubhal na dtíortha, is ort a théigheann scéal nua.” “An riabhach a bhfuil agam dó mhuise, a mhic ó,” ar seisean, “ní dubhart aon scéal riamh ná ní fheadar conus.”

djwebb2021 wrote:
If you see riach in FGB, this can be a euphemism for diabhal, so "an riach" = "an diabhal" or "don diabhal".

Don diabhal a bhfuil agam - I don't have any (I have always thought don diabhal means "fuck all" - I have fuck all to tell = none).

dó mhuise = is dóigh, mhuise?

I would guess that you're right in about 'riabhach' being a euphemism for 'diabhal' in this case, where the first and last consonants have been randomly altered to yield a different pre-existing word that has a benign meaning. (Of course, in Munster Irish, 'diabhal' woould be pronounced as if spelt 'dial', and 'riabhach' as if spelt 'riach'.)

Is 'dó' a known contraction of 'is dóigh'? I do know for instance that 'Is mise Seán' can be shortened to 'Mise Seán', with the 'Is' being dropped.

As far as I understand, in Munster Irish, the prepositions 'de' and 'do' have become conflated. I wonder if it's the case that their corresponding prepositional pronouns have also become conflated e.g. could 'dó' (to it or for it) be used instead of 'de' (of it or off of it). In that case, 'An riabhach a bhfuil agam dó' might mean 'I have eff all of it (i.e. I have eff all of a new story). Just a guess.


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PostPosted: Sun 12 Jan 2025 2:00 pm 
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Caoilte wrote:
As far as I understand, in Munster Irish, the prepositions 'de' and 'do' have become conflated. I wonder if it's the case that their corresponding prepositional pronouns have also become conflated e.g. could 'dó' (to it or for it) be used instead of 'de' (of it or off of it). In that case, 'An riabhach a bhfuil agam dó' might mean 'I have eff all of it (i.e. I have eff all of a new story). Just a guess.


Yes, dó = de, here


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PostPosted: Mon 13 Jan 2025 9:27 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
Caoilte wrote:
As far as I understand, in Munster Irish, the prepositions 'de' and 'do' have become conflated. I wonder if it's the case that their corresponding prepositional pronouns have also become conflated e.g. could 'dó' (to it or for it) be used instead of 'de' (of it or off of it). In that case, 'An riabhach a bhfuil agam dó' might mean 'I have eff all of it (i.e. I have eff all of a new story). Just a guess.


Yes, dó = de, here


That makes sense. Thank you both

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