It is currently Sun 16 Jun 2024 8:24 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun 19 May 2024 4:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue 07 May 2024 3:50 pm
Posts: 57
To me, these seem like extra rules that make speaking irish correctly much more complicated with no added benefit on clarity of communicating idea's. They are very common in "Standardized Irish", but I was wondering if they are also always there in Cork Irish?

How important are getting these rules grammer rules correct? Would people in Ireland still be able to understand me if I just ignored them? Thanks in advance!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 19 May 2024 9:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat 09 Dec 2023 10:59 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Corcaigh
They are non-negotiable parts of the languages used in all dialects and in many Celtic languages.

They are more 'simplified' in 'Standard Irish' in my opinion. Cork Irish, and indeed every variant of Irish uses them.

I strongly suggest against avoiding them. If you avoid them, you won't be speaking Irish. If you are studying the language, study the language. You can't pick and choose the bits you like and don't like.

They are not that hard, they're just not something you're familiar with yet.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 19 May 2024 11:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1174
Yes, absolutely right. It is not correct Irish to avoid the consonant mutations, and they often make a distinction that cannot be made another way. A mhac - his son. A mac - her son or their son.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 20 May 2024 12:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 404
Location: Corcaigh
msv133 wrote:
To me, these seem like extra rules that make speaking irish correctly much more complicated with no added benefit on clarity of communicating idea's. They are very common in "Standardized Irish", but I was wondering if they are also always there in Cork Irish?

How important are getting these rules grammer rules correct? Would people in Ireland still be able to understand me if I just ignored them? Thanks in advance!!


I'll chime in to agree with the other two. Not only are initial mutations an integral part of Irish, regardless of dialect, but they serve a vital semantic role in many grammatical contexts. While their application may vary between dialects, and some situations may occur where a speaker of Irish will be able to understand what you intended to say if you mix up your mutations, in other cases it is not possible to tell what you are trying to express unless you get the mutations correct.

Aside from the utility of initial mutations as grammatical features, it's worth noting that they also happen to be a feature shared by all surviving Celtic languages. This is something that makes these languages unique among other Indo-European and world languages. They should be appreciated not merely for their utility, but because they are a wonderful example of the variety which can crop up in languages. In this case, they represent a common solution among Celtic languages to the lexical phenomenon known as apocope. While many closely related languages, many of them situated closeby geographically also, also experienced the loss of final Indo-European syllables, only the Celtic languages developed initial mutations as a result. This is something to be admired, not ignored.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 20 May 2024 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1174
msv133 wrote:
To me, these seem like extra rules that make speaking irish correctly much more complicated with no added benefit on clarity of communicating idea's. They are very common in "Standardized Irish", but I was wondering if they are also always there in Cork Irish?

How important are getting these rules grammer rules correct? Would people in Ireland still be able to understand me if I just ignored them? Thanks in advance!!

Anyhow, why Cork Irish? Most people link their learning to their background. E.g. if you have Galway ancestors, then maybe Mícheál Ó Siadhial's Learning Irish is the textbook for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 20 May 2024 5:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue 07 May 2024 3:50 pm
Posts: 57
Because somebody (either you or ADE) linked me a Bible in Cork English that you said was really good. My last name is Vaughan, not sure what part of Ireland we are from.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 143 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group