It is currently Mon 04 Mar 2024 12:48 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Grammar books/guides
PostPosted: Fri 02 Feb 2024 5:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue 09 Jan 2024 8:15 pm
Posts: 26
I have Collins easy learning Irish Grammar book and Nollaig Mac Congáil's Irish Grammar Book. I find neither particularly easy to use. I tend to use nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm far more than my books. But I find nualeargais.ie very technical and difficult to follow at times.

What are people's recommendations for the best Irish grammar guide in English or both languages at a reasonable price, say £40 or under? Ideally I would like the guide to handle the differences between the dialects as, for example, nualeargais.ie does. My preference is for Munster Irish followed by Connacht.

I don't mind buying an out of print book second hand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grammar books/guides
PostPosted: Fri 02 Feb 2024 7:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1081
You can post questions here.

There aren't any really good grammar books for Irish. The Standardised Irish ones are the only comprehensive ones. Older ones are actually no good. The explanations on nualeargais are great - and they are the best you will find. If you need more explanations, post here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grammar books/guides
PostPosted: Sat 03 Feb 2024 9:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue 09 Jan 2024 8:15 pm
Posts: 26
Thank you for the insights. I'll continue using nualeargais.ie.

Thank you for the offer. I'll post any questions that I have on here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grammar books/guides
PostPosted: Tue 06 Feb 2024 5:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 258
If you’re interested in older stuff, Gearóid Ó Nualláin’s Studies in Modern Irish books are a good resource (though not a grammar per se – and often use untranslated examples, so it’s not approachable for a beginner; you’ll find them on archive.org, the first volume is here), also his New Era Grammar is pretty good.

Note, though, that the two pretty much focus on West Munster, especially Cork, Irish of the late 19th, early 20th century.

Another great grammar book – but exclusively in Irish – is Gnás na Gaedhilge by Cormac Ó Cadhlaigh. It has more varied input (shows forms from texts by Ulster and Connacht authors too) but it’s still mostly based by Cork Irish of Peadar Ua Laoghaire, similarly to the aforementioned books by O’Nolan.

For modern standard Irish you have Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí which you can find online (in Irish), but which also has an annotated translation to English published, as A Grammar of Modern Irish by Pól Ó Murchú.

Those generally are the resources I’d recommend.

Beside those books by Nancy Stenson, like Routledge A Comprehensive Grammar: Modern Irish or Studies in Irish syntax, or Basic Irish: A Grammar and Workbook might be worth looking at – AFAIK they’re pretty good but do contain small errors with more involved stuff. (Also, more focus on Standard Irish with input mostly from Connacht speakers while myself I tend to prefer… more Munster and historical bias in my resources and no focus on what’s accepted today by the standard and what isn’t ;-)).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grammar books/guides
PostPosted: Tue 06 Feb 2024 5:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1081
silmeth wrote:
an annotated translation to English published, as A Grammar of Modern Irish by Pól Ó Murchú

I don't think this is genuinely annotated. Where are the annotations? The only thing is that he notes that some example sentences in Ó Dónall's dictionary don't correspond to Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí. So the CO people differ among themselves (slightly).

I think a genuinely annotated grammar, where each point is annotated to explain which dialect GGBC took a grammatical rule from, or where the example sentences are from (many are lifted from Peadar Ua Laoghaire's works verbatim without acknowledgement) would be good.

Another idiocy is that Paul Murphy calls English "Béarla" throughout even in English-language sentences. He doesn't give a good explanation of that. I think he is just a Sinn Féiner for whom the Irish language is just an adjunct to his politics.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grammar books/guides
PostPosted: Tue 06 Feb 2024 5:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 258
No idea how much/if it really is annotated – I’m just aware of that version, haven’t really seen it on my own (but some people quoted some translated passages to me, and those seemed fine). Maybe it’s “just” a translation. Still might be useful as an alternative to the original.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grammar books/guides
PostPosted: Tue 06 Feb 2024 5:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1081
silmeth wrote:
No idea how much/if it really is annotated – I’m just aware of that version, haven’t really seen it on my own (but some people quoted some translated passages to me, and those seemed fine). Maybe it’s “just” a translation. Still might be useful as an alternative to the original.

Yes it is. It's an exact translation of GGBC.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Grammar books/guides
PostPosted: Wed 07 Feb 2024 10:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue 09 Jan 2024 8:15 pm
Posts: 26
silmeth wrote:
If you’re interested in older stuff, Gearóid Ó Nualláin’s Studies in Modern Irish books are a good resource (though not a grammar per se – and often use untranslated examples, so it’s not approachable for a beginner; you’ll find them on archive.org, the first volume is here), also his New Era Grammar is pretty good.

Note, though, that the two pretty much focus on West Munster, especially Cork, Irish of the late 19th, early 20th century.

Another great grammar book – but exclusively in Irish – is Gnás na Gaedhilge by Cormac Ó Cadhlaigh. It has more varied input (shows forms from texts by Ulster and Connacht authors too) but it’s still mostly based by Cork Irish of Peadar Ua Laoghaire, similarly to the aforementioned books by O’Nolan.

For modern standard Irish you have Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí which you can find online (in Irish), but which also has an annotated translation to English published, as A Grammar of Modern Irish by Pól Ó Murchú.

Those generally are the resources I’d recommend.

Beside those books by Nancy Stenson, like Routledge A Comprehensive Grammar: Modern Irish or Studies in Irish syntax, or Basic Irish: A Grammar and Workbook might be worth looking at – AFAIK they’re pretty good but do contain small errors with more involved stuff. (Also, more focus on Standard Irish with input mostly from Connacht speakers while myself I tend to prefer… more Munster and historical bias in my resources and no focus on what’s accepted today by the standard and what isn’t ;-)).


Thank you. Those suggestions are very helpful. I'll go off and have a look at those books. I am interested in Waterford Irish, in particular, because my father went to Mount Sion in Waterford in the 1940/50s with the Christian Brothers where 'everything' was done through the medium of Irish.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bungus mac, Google [Bot] and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group