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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan 2024 2:47 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHv4rlLFa7I
This is quite good, by a prominent Gaeilgeóir. He focused on things like mé and tú often being me and tu in the spoken language, the definite article losing its 'n and other things like that.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan 2024 4:19 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHv4rlLFa7I
This is quite good, by a prominent Gaeilgeóir. He focused on things like mé and tú often being me and tu in the spoken language, the definite article losing its 'n and other things like that.


His examples seem particular to Ulster Irish. Even if that weren't the case, though, I don't think it's particularly unusual for languages' orthographies to represent a somewhat dated or idealised register of the language. This is true of silent consonants at the end of French words, for example, and English is teaming with silent letters which once would have been pronounced ("knight", "knee", "should", and "would").

The lack of the n of the article is more interesting to me, as I know this is a formalised feature of Scottish Gaelic orthography. Again, however, I suspect it's more prevalent in Ulster Irish than in other dialects (perhaps, as might be expected, given its proximity geographically to Scotland).


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan 2024 4:58 am 
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Well, I don't know about the Connemara, but the rule that "an" is "a'" after a consonant applies in Munster too: úinéir an mhuilinn = úinéir a' mhuilinn. But úinéirí an mhuilinn = úinéirí 'n mhuilinn. There is a section in the Irish of West Muskerry on this.

He also refers briefly to "ag". Ag dul is not "aig dul". It is "a' dol". Ag déanamh is "a' déanamh". There is no leeway on this. It is just outright wrong pronunciation to say "aig". Before a vowel "ag ól" is correct.

He also mentions "chun an bhaile" being pronounced " 'n a' bhaile". I'm sure he's right, but I think "abhaile" is sufficient on its own. But maybe he's not talking about where it means "home", but "townland".

Another bad one is "ina". This is NOT pronounced "ina". Áit ina bhfuil sí = áit 'na bhfuil sí. Ina is just droch-Ghaelainn (or possibly extremely slow Irish like "THEE cat sat on THEE mat" reading to a child").

A lot of these are just infants' finger on your lips pronunciations, at best. AY cat sat on AY mat.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan 2024 1:30 pm 
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Ade wrote:
The lack of the n of the article is more interesting to me, as I know this is a formalised feature of Scottish Gaelic orthography. Again, however, I suspect it's more prevalent in Ulster Irish than in other dialects (perhaps, as might be expected, given its proximity geographically to Scotland).

Dropping the n of the article, or saying it as m or ng in certain cases, is extremely common in the spoken language in all three dialects.

Am bus
Ang ceann

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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan 2024 6:05 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Ade wrote:
The lack of the n of the article is more interesting to me, as I know this is a formalised feature of Scottish Gaelic orthography. Again, however, I suspect it's more prevalent in Ulster Irish than in other dialects (perhaps, as might be expected, given its proximity geographically to Scotland).

Dropping the n of the article, or saying it as m or ng in certain cases, is extremely common in the spoken language in all three dialects.

Am bus
Ang ceann


But is dropping it entirely as prevalent?

I also wonder whether this is formalised in Manx orthography. Seems likely given it's a comparatively recently developed orthography for a Gaelic language.


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan 2024 7:34 pm 
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Ade wrote:
But is dropping it entirely as prevalent?

Dropping the n completely is common in everyday speech in all the dialects.

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Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Tue 09 Jan 2024 9:43 pm 
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Ade wrote:
But is dropping it entirely as prevalent?

I also wonder whether this is formalised in Manx orthography. Seems likely given it's a comparatively recently developed orthography for a Gaelic language.

My impression is that the Irish of those who have been through the school system, including in the Gaeltacht, is more articulated to the written spelling. What I was talking about was the Irish of people like Amhlaoibh Ó Loingsigh, the main source of Brian Ó Cuív's The Irish of West Muskerry. This also dovetails with sentences transcribed by Wagner in his Linguistic Atlas.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan 2024 10:48 am 
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A bit late but…

djwebb2021 wrote:
He also mentions "chun an bhaile" being pronounced " 'n a' bhaile". I'm sure he's right, but I think "abhaile" is sufficient on its own. But maybe he's not talking about where it means "home", but "townland".


It’s highly unlikely you’d ever hear “abhaile” from a Donegal native speaker - or see it written by one. “Chun an bhaile” is your man - usually written in dialogue (and sometimes even in narrative) as “ ‘na bhaile”.


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PostPosted: Mon 29 Jan 2024 11:42 am 
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Errigal wrote:
It’s highly unlikely you’d ever hear “abhaile” from a Donegal native speaker - or see it written by one. “Chun an bhaile” is your man - usually written in dialogue (and sometimes even in narrative) as “ ‘na bhaile”.

Thank you. I didn't know that.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Apr 2024 7:55 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHv4rlLFa7I
This is quite good, by a prominent Gaeilgeóir. He focused on things like mé and tú often being me and tu in the spoken language, the definite article losing its 'n and other things like that.

losing 'n is a mistake that newbies like me often encounter. :facepalm:


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