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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2024 10:54 am 
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Bungus mac wrote:

Ceterum (autem) censeo An Caighdeán Oifigiúil esse delendam. :prof:



delendUm - Murab ionann is Carthago/Carthaginem tá ‘An Caighdeán Oifigiuil’ firinscneach. :prof:


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2024 11:47 am 
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Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2014 10:03 pm
Posts: 518
Location: SAM
Bungus mac wrote:
they think their job is to "Save the Irish Language" positioning themselves as an outside force, external to the language and the Gaelic people that must come in like a savior and protect the people from their only ignorance.



You've now been placed on Conradh na Gaeilge's watchlist. They're the absolute worst about this, catering entirely to fucking learners in Dublin. They'd rather collect and spend €10m trying to build a 'Gaeltacht' in Dublin than imagine the good that money can do in the actual Gaeltacht areas. It's ridiculous.

Maolra wrote:
2) Adults: It focuses almost exclusively to children & teachers alike. If there were more programmes tailored to adults learning the language, promoting the adoption of the language in their homes/relationships/as a element (albeit 10/20%) of their daily lives, then Irish would be more widely spoken by children as a result (i.e. their parents using it, the ability to converse with others outside the education system, it'd make it a 'living language' for those in non-Irish speaking localities), it'd become a language that is used in the community as opposed to ending when a child leaves school. For instance, if there was a drive to promote Irish to adults, then groups of solid adult speakers would bring the presence of the language into daily affairs (not just school!) e.g. supermarkets, chit chat on the street, use in bars/cafes etc.


This is the key issue. I can rant for hours about the issues with adult education in Irish, at least in Dublin. Indeed, there's two major issues:

1) There's literally no set curriculum. People sign up for the level they think they're at, then teachers teach what they want to learn. This is true even for true beginners. While the levels are theoretically based on CEFR, there's no way of progress. This means you could get someone in the B1 class whose covered topics someone else hasn't -- even if they did A1 and A2 at the same organisation. It's a pathetic way to run things, and just really dumb. There needs to be some standardization, not just letting learners decide the topics they want to learn. Gaelchultúr is, as far as I'm aware, the only one that actually does have a set curriculum for their classes.

2) There's literally not a single class for pronunciation available in Dublin. When I first moved here I emailed all three big groups -- Conradh, Gael Linn, Gaelchultúr -- and not a single one of them had pronunciation classes. Nor could they find any teacher who was willing to work on it with me, even for a higher private lesson fee.

And that's not even me getting into the other issues with Irish language culture in Dublin and how it's divided into many cliques and, well, good luck trying to break into one if you're not already there. It's a huge issue and very unwelcoming at times.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2024 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1105
galaxyrocker wrote:
2) There's literally not a single class for pronunciation available in Dublin. When I first moved here I emailed all three big groups -- Conradh, Gael Linn, Gaelchultúr -- and not a single one of them had pronunciation classes. Nor could they find any teacher who was willing to work on it with me, even for a higher private lesson fee.

And that's not even me getting into the other issues with Irish language culture in Dublin and how it's divided into many cliques and, well, good luck trying to break into one if you're not already there. It's a huge issue and very unwelcoming at times.

Surely you can find a Conamara native in Dublin who can teach you? You don't have to ask those groups to find a teacher for you. *Maybe those groups would prefer to teach poor pronunciation, as it's easier?


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2024 1:37 pm 
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Location: SAM
djwebb2021 wrote:
to many cliques and, well, good luck trying to break into one if you're not already there. It's a huge issue and very unwelcoming at times.

Surely you can find a Conamara native in Dublin who can teach you? You don't have to ask those groups to find a teacher for you. *Maybe those groups would prefer to teach poor pronunciation, as it's easier?[/quote]


I've asked around, but I'm unaware of any who are willing to teach and work on it with me. I know a few Conamara natives here, but none who want to do the extra time working on pronunciation (or who are really trained to teach).


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2024 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
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galaxyrocker wrote:
I've asked around, but I'm unaware of any who are willing to teach and work on it with me. I know a few Conamara natives here, but none who want to do the extra time working on pronunciation (or who are really trained to teach).

Ireland is a wealthy country where housing prices are through the roof, so it's not a surprise to see tuition fees sky-high, but on https://tutorful.ie/results/irish-beginner you can find Irish tutors - and I see that Nóírín G is top-rated, and charges €44 an hour! As you can see at https://tutorful.ie/tutors/9xpnveqg?sub ... eOnly=true she is a native speaker from the West of Ireland, which implies Conamara. For €44 an hour, this would have to be very good indeed..... That is her online fee. For in-person tuition, it is €56/hour (and you have to supply the condom yourself! :LOL: )

Another thing is that you would need to find out if a teacher who claimed to be a native speaker really was, or else you would fall into the Eoin-from-Bite-Sized-Irish trap, where someone who has had "Gaelscoil Irish" from the cradle claims to be Gaeltacht-equivalent.

Have you thought about Patchy? He's quite well-known on Youtube, and speaks Mayo Irish, which is quite close to Conamara, and he charges €16 an hour for lessons. See https://www.italki.com/en/teacher/4276448/gaelic(irish) He is very interested in the proper pronunciation too. This is his Youtube channel (all good stuff): https://www.youtube.com/@patchy642


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 Post subject: Re: Gaeltacht na nDéise
PostPosted: Thu 29 Feb 2024 12:14 am 
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Joined: Wed 17 May 2023 3:47 am
Posts: 22
Quote:
2) There's literally not a single class for pronunciation available in Dublin. When I first moved here I emailed all three big groups -- Conradh, Gael Linn, Gaelchultúr -- and not a single one of them had pronunciation classes. Nor could they find any teacher who was willing to work on it with me, even for a higher private lesson fee.


Most language teachers develop of knowledge pronunciation and ability to teach pronunciation last. Some never develop it. This is true outside Ireland too. This is a general trend. Native speakers can make all the sounds but that doesn't mean they know the sounds or can isolate the sounds or instruct on how to make said sounds. So teachers and students get into a little game of saying words back and forth at each other. An experienced educated native speaker is very valuable.
"Up and atom!"
"Up and at them!" :facepalm:

Quote:
I've asked around, but I'm unaware of any who are willing to teach and work on it with me. I know a few Conamara natives here, but none who want to do the extra time working on pronunciation (or who are really trained to teach).

It's rare to find teachers comfortable to teach pronunciation. It takes a decent amount of study to be able to do it well. They are probably just being honest about their abilities.

MR djwebb2021 mentions patchy over on italki.
He seems legitimate about pronunciation. :good:


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