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PostPosted: Sun 22 Oct 2023 5:31 pm 
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Hello, and thank you in advance for any help you can give me with this!

Short bit of background: My great grandfather passed away fairly recently (we think death was too scared to take the tough SOB any earlier!). He was born and raised in Ireland, and spoke Irish fluently. By the time I got to know him, he been in the States for decades, and only spoke English (at least around me). He was a gruff, loud, aggressive man, who either loved or hated a person when he first met them, and never changed his mind. However, he was always tender and kind to those he loved. One of his favorite sayings was "Live right, die right", and I want to remember him by getting that as a tattoo.

I have done some initial research, and I would like some advice/corrections if possible. For clarity, the phrase I am looking for could be re-written as "Live correctly, die correctly", or "Live your life well, so you may have no regrets at your death", or "Live life to the fullest, die with honor and grace".

With some basic knowledge of grammar (and a whole lot of googling and Teanglann.ie), my initial translation efforts give me Mair go ceart, éag go ceart.

Both Mair and [b]éag[\b] should be the imperative forms of the verbs (I think...), and [b]go ceart[\b] should be the adverb form.
I did see several other words that could take the place of [b]mair[\b], [b]éag[\b], and [b]ceart[\b], but those seemed closest to what I was looking for.
I could be completely wrong about that, though.

In regards to the (SL) tag, my plan is to then convert this phrase to the Ogham alphabet (seems more appealing than plain text to me), and that seemed more fitting, though I am not set in stone on the idea, so more modern translations are also appreciated! (I do realize my translation attempt is likely modern itself)

I really do appreciate any help with this, so thank you again for any input or criticisms!


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PostPosted: Sun 22 Oct 2023 5:35 pm 
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I realize I made a mistake in regards to bolding the translation in the grammar paragraph (silly me for doing it manually and missing the right type of slash). Here it is again fixed:

Both Mair and éag should be the imperative forms of the verbs (I think...), and go ceart should be the adverb form.
I did see several other words that could take the place of mair, éag, and ceart, but those seemed closest to what I was looking for.
I could be completely wrong about that, though.

(LaTeX habits took over...)


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PostPosted: Sun 22 Oct 2023 8:56 pm 
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Someone else could probably do a better job.

Beatha mar is ceart, bás mar is ceart?

Your current translation could be fine I would say but I am no good for translations
About Ogham you could do that but also you could use the traditional font in the Latin alphabet like this
Beaṫa mar is ceart, bás mar is ceart

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I recommend to learn Irish pronunciation on doegen.ie
Scottish Gaelic pronunciation on tobarandualchais.co.uk


Last edited by Ceanntuigheoireacht6 on Tue 24 Oct 2023 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 22 Oct 2023 9:56 pm 
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Yeah, it seems either would work but I like the final offering with that specific font. (I wonder if what some people refer to as “ogham” isn’t really an uncial font as given above.??)

There may be a set proverb that expresses the same thing in a different way as well. I’ll have a look. And then some others may want to either offer something else or agree with the above translation. (We usually try for two agreements before giving the OK on most translations, three all together.)

Cheers

Tim


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PostPosted: Mon 23 Oct 2023 7:23 pm 
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I’d think, "mair" doesn’t have the same range of meaning as "to live" in English.
It rather means "remain", "last", "survive". It is not a kind of behaviour.

You can live right but you cannot "maireachtáil" right.

I’d rather say something like:
Bíodh an saol ceart agat ⁊ an bás ceart chomh maith.
or shorter:
Bíodh saol ⁊ bás ceart agat.

(⁊ =agus, is)


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PostPosted: Mon 23 Oct 2023 8:16 pm 
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(for SL, "bíodh an saoghal ceart agat agus an bás ceart chomh maith")


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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct 2023 5:42 pm 
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Thank you for all the replies! Life kind of exploded right now, so this was a nice surprise.

I am liking the sound of Bíodh saol agus bás ceart agat.. Plus, brevity is rather helpful, as Ogham isn't the most compact alphabet.

As for why Ogham, I am not huge on having regular writing as a tattoo, but Ogham is geometrical/abstract enough to pass for decoration. In any case, it suits my taste.

I will hang around to make sure at least three people agree on the translation. I certainly don't want a "no regerts" situation (as a rather oblivious old roommate of mine had tattooed on his chest. He wasn't the brightest bulb in the pack...).


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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct 2023 11:04 pm 
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I checked on a lot of proverbs and found nothing specifically fitting what you want. I also looked in dictionaries for any phrases that might be close and concise (right living, etc.). Not that Labhrás’ translation is bad or anything, but I am tending toward something like “dea-bheathach agus dea-bhás” which is literally “a good life and a good death”. Sayings and proverbs in Irish often express things in this way, in opposites, and your grandfather being Irish may have had a natural tendency to express his sentiments so either in English or Irish. We’d have to get consensus on whether “good” here means “right” and whether this is a good way to approach this translation.

Cheers

Tim


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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct 2023 11:18 pm 
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tiomluasocein wrote:
I checked on a lot of proverbs and found nothing specifically fitting what you want. I also looked in dictionaries for any phrases that might be close and concise (right living, etc.). Not that Labhrás’ translation is bad or anything, but I am tending toward something like “dea-bheathach agus dea-bhás” which is literally “a good life and a good death”. Sayings and proverbs in Irish often express things in this way, in opposites, and your grandfather being Irish may have had a natural tendency to express his sentiments so either in English or Irish. We’d have to get consensus on whether “good” here means “right” and whether this is a good way to approach this translation.

Cheers

Tim


SL: deagh-bheathach, deagh-bhás.

I dunno maybe, I wouldn't really get it if you told me "deagh-bhás."

I suggested "mar is ceart" because its like 'as one ought to' but it doesnt flow, so I would agree most with Labhrás' latest translation but maybe the "deagh" thing could work. Funny because I also was thinking there was a proverb but I really cant think of one either.

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I recommend to learn Irish pronunciation on doegen.ie
Scottish Gaelic pronunciation on tobarandualchais.co.uk


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PostPosted: Wed 25 Oct 2023 12:29 am 
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Saol fónta agus bás gan gonta.

(I made this one up! I am an author of homemade proverbs.)


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