It is currently Sat 02 Dec 2023 7:13 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct 2023 8:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 20 Sep 2023 9:13 pm
Posts: 87
Maybe everyone's already seen this, but I think it's really cool. If you get bored, make sure to skip to the other person as well if you're interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iGQwXEUDpM&t=11s


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct 2023 10:32 pm 
Online

Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 296
Location: Corcaigh
Ceanntuigheoireacht6 wrote:
Maybe everyone's already seen this, but I think it's really cool. If you get bored, make sure to skip to the other person as well if you're interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iGQwXEUDpM&t=11s


Funnily enough, I just came upon this myself last week. I wonder is this the Irish native to Clare as it had developed since time immemorial, or is it the variety brought with people settling in Clare from the Aran Islands?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct 2023 11:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 20 Sep 2023 9:13 pm
Posts: 87
Yes and I wonder what Irish the interviewer speaks.

_________________
Séamus Ó h-Uiginn

Cainnteóir dúṫċais - Ṫá seana-ċainnt na nDéise agam

L1 Speaker - I speak an old dialect of Déise Irish


Last edited by Ceanntuigheoireacht6 on Sun 29 Oct 2023 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct 2023 11:28 pm 
Online

Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 296
Location: Corcaigh
Ceanntuigheoireacht6 wrote:
Yes, and I wonder what Irish is at the interviewer. Sounds funny to me.


It almost reminds me of a Limerick accent at about 5:50, in English of course, but I suspect it's more a register than any local accent.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 12:14 am 
Online

Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 296
Location: Corcaigh
Ade wrote:
Ceanntuigheoireacht6 wrote:
Yes, and I wonder what Irish is at the interviewer. Sounds funny to me.


It almost reminds me of a Limerick accent at about 5:50, in English of course, but I suspect it's more a register than any local accent.


He asks at one point if the woman eats "fataí", and she doesn't understand the term. I suspect this is a dialectal difference. Obviously this pins his Irish to Connemara, but my suspicion is that he learned it to a high standard as a second language. As for hers, assuming she'd have understood had he said "prátaí", I suspect this answers my question as to whether her Irish is native to Munster or a Connemara import.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 3:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 20 Sep 2023 9:13 pm
Posts: 87
I was sure it was Munster, no doubt with that but I wasn't sure of the Aran Islands question as I hear theres some Munster mixed in there. The interviewer sounds mostly Connemara I'd agree but something mixed in which made it sound funny to me.

_________________
Séamus Ó h-Uiginn

Cainnteóir dúṫċais - Ṫá seana-ċainnt na nDéise agam

L1 Speaker - I speak an old dialect of Déise Irish


Last edited by Ceanntuigheoireacht6 on Tue 31 Oct 2023 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 9:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat 31 Jul 2021 8:03 pm
Posts: 107
To my ears, the interviewer is speaking unmistakably Munster Irish. You can here it in his stress patterns and in his pronunciation of certain vowels e.g. in 'clann'. I would nearly go so far a to say that his accent sounds kind of Kerry-ish.

His use of 'fataí' is a bit of an anomaly though. Maybe he was under the impression that, with the locality being so close to Connacht, 'fataí' would be better understood than 'prátaí'. He first says it 4m 30s when as asks the first interviewee '[An] bhfuil na fataí ar an mbord?' (Note he stresses the first syllable in 'fataí', which would not be Munster pronunciation (if fataí had been a Munster word)). The first interviewee seems to understand him perfectly though.

This is the exchange where he uses 'fataí' with the second interviewee. It seems that he was initially about to use 'prátaí' but corrected himself at the last moment.

Interviewer: An dtagann éinne chughat le dínnéar?
Woman: Ní thagann.
Interviewer:Ní thagann éinne chughat?
Woman: Ní thagann.
Interviewer: No?
Woman: Cén sórt dínnéir?
Interviewer: Dhera, sórt prá...fataí is dócha. Agus...an itheann tú fataí?
Woman:[confused] Cén só...?
Interviewer:Fat [he shifts stress to second syllable as per Munster Irish]
Woman: [An] bhfuil sé i-do-pháilt [?] dinnéar a labhairt [?] achuile [?] I'd like to know what she's saying here but I can't make it out.
Interviewer: Tá, is dócha.
Woman: Níl fhios agam.

The only other non-Munster pronuncation from him that stood out for me was when has said 'Cuan na Gaillimhe', while addressing the viewers. In Connacht (and I'm guessing in Ulster too) 'Gaillimhe' is pronounced as it is written, whereas in Munster it is pronounced 'Gaillí'. He pronounced it the Connacht way. Maybe he did this deliberately in order to be better understood by viewers from up the country.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 29 Oct 2023 12:41 am 
Online

Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 296
Location: Corcaigh
Caoilte wrote:
To my ears, the interviewer is speaking unmistakably Munster Irish. You can here it in his stress patterns and in his pronunciation of certain vowels e.g. in 'clann'. I would nearly go so far a to say that his accent sounds kind of Kerry-ish.

His use of 'fataí' is a bit of an anomaly though. Maybe he was under the impression that, with the locality being so close to Connacht, 'fataí' would be better understood than 'prátaí'. He first says it 4m 30s when as asks the first interviewee '[An] bhfuil na fataí ar an mbord?' (Note he stresses the first syllable in 'fataí', which would not be Munster pronunciation (if fataí had been a Munster word)). The first interviewee seems to understand him perfectly though.

This is the exchange where he uses 'fataí' with the second interviewee. It seems that he was initially about to use 'prátaí' but corrected himself at the last moment.

Interviewer: An dtagann éinne chughat le dínnéar?
Woman: Ní thagann.
Interviewer:Ní thagann éinne chughat?
Woman: Ní thagann.
Interviewer: No?
Woman: Cén sórt dínnéir?
Interviewer: Dhera, sórt prá...fataí is dócha. Agus...an itheann tú fataí?
Woman:[confused] Cén só...?
Interviewer:Fat [he shifts stress to second syllable as per Munster Irish]
Woman: [An] bhfuil sé i-do-pháilt [?] dinnéar a labhairt [?] achuile [?] I'd like to know what she's saying here but I can't make it out.
Interviewer: Tá, is dócha.
Woman: Níl fhios agam.

The only other non-Munster pronuncation from him that stood out for me was when has said 'Cuan na Gaillimhe', while addressing the viewers. In Connacht (and I'm guessing in Ulster too) 'Gaillimhe' is pronounced as it is written, whereas in Munster it is pronounced 'Gaillí'. He pronounced it the Connacht way. Maybe he did this deliberately in order to be better understood by viewers from up the country.


You're right now that I go back and listen to it again, he was about to say prátaí. I'm still inclined to think he's an L2 speaker, but possibly one who learned primarily from Munster speakers. Then again, it could just be a generational difference.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 29 Oct 2023 11:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 872
Caoilte wrote:
The only other non-Munster pronuncation from him that stood out for me was when has said 'Cuan na Gaillimhe', while addressing the viewers. In Connacht (and I'm guessing in Ulster too) 'Gaillimhe' is pronounced as it is written, whereas in Munster it is pronounced 'Gaillí'. He pronounced it the Connacht way. Maybe he did this deliberately in order to be better understood by viewers from up the country.

I think Gaillí makes sense in the phonology of Munster Irish, and maybe that pronunciation is shown by Peadar Ua Laoghaire's spelling Gaillmhe (with no i before the v) in his Lughaidh Mac Con.

But I found Gailivi as the transcription in Leitiriú Shímplí. I believe that was in the LS version of Ár nDóithin Araon, but the book is in a box somewhere and it would take hours to locate it.

Maybe Shán Ó Cuív thought it was Gailivi, when it is Gailí? Or maybe he heard the word more frequently from Galway speakers and presumed that their pronunciation was right?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 29 Oct 2023 12:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 20 Sep 2023 9:13 pm
Posts: 87
Caoilte wrote:
To my ears, the interviewer is speaking unmistakably Munster Irish. You can here it in his stress patterns and in his pronunciation of certain vowels e.g. in 'clann'. I would nearly go so far a to say that his accent sounds kind of Kerry-ish.

His use of 'fataí' is a bit of an anomaly though. Maybe he was under the impression that, with the locality being so close to Connacht, 'fataí' would be better understood than 'prátaí'. He first says it 4m 30s when as asks the first interviewee '[An] bhfuil na fataí ar an mbord?' (Note he stresses the first syllable in 'fataí', which would not be Munster pronunciation (if fataí had been a Munster word)). The first interviewee seems to understand him perfectly though.

This is the exchange where he uses 'fataí' with the second interviewee. It seems that he was initially about to use 'prátaí' but corrected himself at the last moment.

Interviewer: An dtagann éinne chughat le dínnéar?
Woman: Ní thagann.
Interviewer:Ní thagann éinne chughat?
Woman: Ní thagann.
Interviewer: No?
Woman: Cén sórt dínnéir?
Interviewer: Dhera, sórt prá...fataí is dócha. Agus...an itheann tú fataí?
Woman:[confused] Cén só...?
Interviewer:Fat [he shifts stress to second syllable as per Munster Irish]
Woman: [An] bhfuil sé i-do-pháilt [?] dinnéar a labhairt [?] achuile [?] I'd like to know what she's saying here but I can't make it out.
Interviewer: Tá, is dócha.
Woman: Níl fhios agam.

The only other non-Munster pronuncation from him that stood out for me was when has said 'Cuan na Gaillimhe', while addressing the viewers. In Connacht (and I'm guessing in Ulster too) 'Gaillimhe' is pronounced as it is written, whereas in Munster it is pronounced 'Gaillí'. He pronounced it the Connacht way. Maybe he did this deliberately in order to be better understood by viewers from up the country.


Ah OK. I'm not too educated on intonation and stuff like that. Thanks for the response. I also see now that he was about to say prátaí, so the proximity-to-Galway assumption would make sense. He also pronounces "chúghat" as "chút" as Munster. I have a habit of saying "Gaillimhe" as pronounced also, as the main people I have heard it from are in fact from Galway.

_________________
Séamus Ó h-Uiginn

Cainnteóir dúṫċais - Ṫá seana-ċainnt na nDéise agam

L1 Speaker - I speak an old dialect of Déise Irish


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ade, Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 86 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group