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 Post subject: Bunchlo Arsa
PostPosted: Fri 07 Oct 2022 12:14 pm 
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Bunchlo Arsa has disappeared from everywhere. Apparently Gaelchlo, who say they now own the rights to it, have decided to release it as a "style" under Bunchlo GC. This makes Bunchlo Arsa a real hassle to use. Instead of just selecting it from the font box you have first to compose a "template". Not difficult perhaps, but a hassle.
I contacted Gaelchlo asking them to release the previous version (ie as a separeat font) and the have refused - "it is not going to happen", on the basis that it takes twice the work! Nothing much wrong with the previous edition. Can anybody shed some light on this? Perhaps the Bunchlo designer Vincent Morley is the owner of Gaelchlo who claim they have the rights to the font.
Meanwhile I am using the excellent Gadelica - which Gaelchlo haven't yet got their hands on.
It is difficult to persuade people to try using the traditional scripts because of the R's and S's, and now there's an additional impediment.


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 Post subject: Re: Bunchlo Arsa
PostPosted: Fri 07 Oct 2022 4:32 pm 
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Well, I don't think they are "claiming" the rights to the font. They do have the rights. I think Vincent Morley designed it. I have Seanchló Ársa TTF on my computer. I may have bunchló on a drive somewhere, but as the company who own them are asserting their rights, I don't feel I can just send you it. Unless they say I can? If you they say I can, I will look on various hard drives to see if I have Bunchló Ársa TTF. I definitely have Seanchló Ársa TTf. Gadelica isn't perfect, as their capital B is just flat-out wrong. Although it is annoying when a free resource is capriciously deleted by the developers, you must understand that they didn't have to develop any resources or make them available for free in the first place. I agree with you that the Gaelic script should be used in Irish, but almost no-one in ireland agrees, so you have to accept that.


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 Post subject: Re: Bunchlo Arsa
PostPosted: Fri 07 Oct 2022 5:19 pm 
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The file you want is available on the Internet. e.g. http://www.phouka.com/gaelic/font/bunag-t.zip


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 Post subject: Re: Bunchlo Arsa
PostPosted: Fri 07 Oct 2022 6:42 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
I think Vincent Morley designed it. I have Seanchló Ársa TTF on my computer. I definitely have Seanchló Ársa TTf. Gadelica isn't perfect, as their capital B is just flat-out wrong. ........but almost no-one in ireland agrees, so you have to accept that.


Yes Vincent Morley designed it, and Seanċlo. He is apparently the owner of the Gaelchlo site, so he has indeed the rights to it!
Yes the Gadelica B isn't correct, but that is very common for upper case letters in Irish fonts, and even for lower case r and s - correct in Gadelica wrong in Bunchlo.
The only problem with Gadelica was that the ponc séiṁeaḋ disappeared in larger sizes. Séamas Ó Brógáin is the designer, and a few years back he kindly modified the script which cured the ponc issue. Yes a minority, but I wouldn't agree hardly anyone. Several Gaelgoirí of my acquaintance were brought up with it in the 1950's and lament its demise. Prior to the "reforms" all schools taught in the traditional script. Indeed Adrian, one of the teachers at MhicReachtain, still used it recently but gave up under pressure from the students! Almost all my peers would agree that it looks much nicer than the Roman script. Of course I accept it is unlikely to come back, but like the dialects it will hopefully be kept alive by zealots like maysef! Any thanks for your efforts.


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 Post subject: Re: Bunchlo Arsa
PostPosted: Fri 07 Oct 2022 6:45 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
The file you want is available on the Internet. e.g. http://www.phouka.com/gaelic/font/bunag-t.zip


Ah, so it is! Many thanks. :guiness:


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 Post subject: Re: Bunchlo Arsa
PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2023 5:22 am 
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here is an interesting article dealing with the ponc seímithe.

The ponc can be assigned to [i]Ctrl+.[/i] in Linux, or in Win10 Hexcode + Altx
Vincent Morley has kimndly made many of his Gaelchlo fonts subject to the traditional r and s, through stylistic sets. You select the font from the font box and add :ss01. Some may have other glyth sets :ss02 etc.

http://midnight-court.com/old-font-pre- ... rsion.html


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 Post subject: Re: Bunchlo Arsa
PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2023 5:32 am 
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PS here is a treasure trove of Irish fonts from the Gaelic University in Scotland: https://www3.smo.uhi.ac.uk/oduibhin/mearchlar/fonts.htm
It is archived and many of the links are dead.
The parent resource is https://www3.smo.uhi.ac.uk/oduibhin/ It includes lots of info on the sialects.


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 Post subject: Re: Bunchlo Arsa
PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2023 10:29 am 
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spaarks wrote:
PS here is a treasure trove of Irish fonts from the Gaelic University in Scotland: https://www3.smo.uhi.ac.uk/oduibhin/mearchlar/fonts.htm
It is archived and many of the links are dead.
The parent resource is https://www3.smo.uhi.ac.uk/oduibhin/ It includes lots of info on the sialects.


When you say the r and s are wrong in Bunchló, well, you need to use a font called Bunchló Ársa GC, which has the correct r and s.

There is another font called Seanchló Ársa GC, which is much better and more aesthetically pleasing than Bunchlo - and yet - duh! - the capital B is wrong. And so you have to use Bunchló Ársa GC.

I think many Irish people are for some reason totally contemptuous of their traditional culture - this is seen with the CO - a made-up "standard" that is not spoken in the Gaeltacht - as well as the government's heavy-handed refusal to allow native speakers to write in seana-chló in the 1930s and 1940s. And in Vincent Morley's failure to do a proper capital B in Seanchló Ársa GC.

What happened in the 1930s was that An Gúm was encouraging all native speakers to write books, of varying quality, and thousands were produced. Autobiographies, translations, novels etc. And guess what? The ruling came down that native speakers could not insist on their books coming out in seana-chló. They would only come out in seana-chló if they received typed manuscripts already in seana-chló. Hand manuscripts wouldn't do - and there were no sean-chló typewriters. The language has always been under the control of overbearing committees of L2 speakers in Dublin.


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 Post subject: Re: Bunchlo Arsa
PostPosted: Thu 19 Oct 2023 1:01 pm 
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Yes, I do have Bunchló Arsa now.
Vincent's Gaelchló seems to be the only Irish font under continuous development.
Pity about Gadelica but it is such a nice font that I'll keep using it.

The Roman B occurs is a few Irish typefaces including the Malairtí style (ss01). Conversly the Irish style B occurs in some typefaces that use the Roman r and s.
Another interesting thing is that even in most GC Roman font styles the ponc glyph shows the s as an Irish Glyph.
The Gael A and AX have Irish glyphs except when it comes to the ponc, where the s is Roman! The Gael series uses an easy method of generating the ponc - just type \ after the letter.

The only font set I have found that use style sets are the Gaelchló ones. There may be some way of making the style set the dominant one.
Anyway with several great Irish typefaces out there why bother.

All quite confusing and probably not worth the bother unless you are bored!

I have a wee list of free Irish fonts I have collected, but can't see any way to do an attachment here.


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