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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct 2023 2:48 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Saol fónta agus bás gan gonta.
(I made this one up! I am an author of homemade proverbs.)


Good one!


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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct 2023 2:58 am 
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Ceanntuigheoireacht6 wrote:
tiomluasocein wrote:
I checked on a lot of proverbs and found nothing specifically fitting what you want. I also looked in dictionaries for any phrases that might be close and concise (right living, etc.). Not that Labhrás’ translation is bad or anything, but I am tending toward something like “dea-bheathach agus dea-bhás” which is literally “a good life and a good death”. Sayings and proverbs in Irish often express things in this way, in opposites, and your grandfather being Irish may have had a natural tendency to express his sentiments so either in English or Irish. We’d have to get consensus on whether “good” here means “right” and whether this is a good way to approach this translation.

Cheers

Tim


SL: deagh-bheathach, deagh-bhás.

I dunno maybe, I wouldn't really get it if you told me "deagh-bhás."

I suggested "mar is ceart" because its like 'as one ought to' but it doesnt flow, so I would agree most with Labhrás' latest translation but maybe the "deagh" thing could work. Funny because I also was thinking there was a proverb but I really cant think of one either.


I got “deagh-bhás” from Teaglann - dea-bhás, m. (gs. -áis). Happy death. ~ agus dea-lá chun na cille, a good death and a good day on one’s last journey.

Like you, it wouldn’t make much sense to me, only in a proverb or saying.

If we ever do come to some consensus ☺️ do you think rendering it in Old Irish would be good since it will be written in Ogham?

And how about something like

“Beo nó marbh, déan é go maith.”?


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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct 2023 9:03 am 
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tiomluasocein wrote:
I got “deagh-bhás” from Teaglann - dea-bhás, m. (gs. -áis). Happy death. ~ agus dea-lá chun na cille, a good death and a good day on one’s last journey.

Like you, it wouldn’t make much sense to me, only in a proverb or saying.

If we ever do come to some consensus ☺️ do you think rendering it in Old Irish would be good since it will be written in Ogham?

And how about something like

“Beo nó marbh, déan é go maith.”?


There is a strong preference for pronouns to go at the end - dein go maith é, not dein é go maith.


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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct 2023 12:57 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
tiomluasocein wrote:
I got “deagh-bhás” from Teaglann - dea-bhás, m. (gs. -áis). Happy death. ~ agus dea-lá chun na cille, a good death and a good day on one’s last journey.

Like you, it wouldn’t make much sense to me, only in a proverb or saying.

If we ever do come to some consensus ☺️ do you think rendering it in Old Irish would be good since it will be written in Ogham?

And how about something like

“Beo nó marbh, déan é go maith.”?


There is a strong preference for pronouns to go at the end - dein go maith é, not dein é go maith.


Right. I thought about that after I posted it.

Do you have anything else to comment on about the other things I posted?


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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct 2023 4:10 am 
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Can we come to a consensus?

Labhràs’ Bíodh saoghal agus bás ceart agat looks good to me.

Two questions though - Is this sufficiently SL? Are there other spelling changes needed? And is “ceart” needed after “saoghal” too, or is it understood?

Tim


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PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct 2023 3:37 pm 
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tiomluasocein wrote:
Can we come to a consensus?

Labhrás’ Bíodh saoghal agus bás ceart agat looks good to me.

Two questions though - Is this sufficiently SL? Are there other spelling changes needed? And is “ceart” needed after “saoghal” too, or is it understood?

Tim


Should be understood. Definitely all Sl.

_________________
Séamus Ó h-Uiginn

Cainnteóir dúṫċais - Ṫá seana-ċainnt na nDéise agam

L1 Speaker - I speak an old dialect of Déise Irish


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PostPosted: Mon 30 Oct 2023 3:12 pm 
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tiomluasocein wrote:
Can we come to a consensus?

Labhràs’ Bíodh saoghal agus bás ceart agat looks good to me.

Two questions though - Is this sufficiently SL? Are there other spelling changes needed? And is “ceart” needed after “saoghal” too, or is it understood?

Tim


Bíoḋ saoġal ⁊ bás ceart agat.

, "Tironian Et" because of shortness and because it was very common in SL.

Ceart is needed only once: [saoghal agus bás] ceart, [fear agus bean] mhór, [buachaill is cailín] óg, etc.


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PostPosted: Mon 30 Oct 2023 3:46 pm 
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It sounds like there is a consensus. Thank you all so much for all the time and effort you put into this! I am deeply indebted to you all, and very grateful for your help. I hope to learn the language one day myself (once life slows down putting things on my plate), and possibly pay it forward. I hope you all have an amazing day, and I wish you the best in all your endeavors!


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PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov 2023 12:26 am 
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Ezekiel wrote:
It sounds like there is a consensus. Thank you all so much for all the time and effort you put into this! I am deeply indebted to you all, and very grateful for your help. I hope to learn the language one day myself (once life slows down putting things on my plate), and possibly pay it forward. I hope you all have an amazing day, and I wish you the best in all your endeavors!


Yes, a consensus here. I would still sit on it for a while and even check with any other Irish speakers/translators who may be able to give you some feedback, and you can always come back here and let us know.

Cheers and good luck!

Tim


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