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 Post subject: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Fri 14 Jul 2023 8:39 am 
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Hello, I have a question about the use of a réamhfhocal.

I found something the other day that said 'teaghlach ar a bhfuil clann',

Does anyone know if this can be used in Irish (ar) to mean a family with kids?, I guess it could also be found in the form: 'tá clann ar an teaghlach sin', to mean, that family has kids if it can be used like that

Thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Fri 14 Jul 2023 10:52 am 
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shane wrote:
Hello, I have a question about the use of a réamhfhocal.

I found something the other day that said 'teaghlach ar a bhfuil clann',

Does anyone know if this can be used in Irish (ar) to mean a family with kids?, I guess it could also be found in the form: 'tá clann ar an teaghlach sin', to mean, that family has kids if it can be used like that

Thanks :)


I don't like the phrase, partly because teaghlach means "household", not "family" as such, and clann means "offspring". Children are not offspring of the household, but only of one or two members of the household. Also "ag" makes more sense to me than "ar", but maybe the writer is using "ar" to mean "among"?

Muintir tí go bhfuil leanaí acu/orthu?


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 Post subject: Re: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Fri 14 Jul 2023 11:01 am 
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That's interesting, it could mean among..


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 Post subject: Re: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov 2023 1:10 pm 
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Just in case anyone was wondering, I have since found the use of the réamhfhocal to bring across this meaning in other places:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJCCCVD_DGM&t=1962s @1.40, said by Sonaí Choilm Learaí
Although Focloir.ie may not be the most reputable place to find information, I have also come across it there too:

they have a young family = tá clann óg orthu


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 Post subject: Re: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov 2023 2:32 pm 
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"ar" is common with "clann".

An bhfuil clann orthu?

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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 Post subject: Re: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov 2023 5:37 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
"ar" is common with "clann".

An bhfuil clann orthu?


Because having children is like having a handicap or physical infirmity...?


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 Post subject: Re: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov 2023 11:25 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
"ar" is common with "clann".

An bhfuil clann orthu?


I'm now thinking it must be like muiríon a bheith ort.


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 Post subject: Re: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Tue 21 Nov 2023 10:11 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:
"ar" is common with "clann".

An bhfuil clann orthu?


I'm now thinking it must be like muiríon a bheith ort.


I think so too


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 Post subject: Re: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Tue 21 Nov 2023 11:10 am 
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shane wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:
"ar" is common with "clann".

An bhfuil clann orthu?


I'm now thinking it must be like muiríon a bheith ort.


I think so too

There is sometimes a choice of prepositions in Irish. "Clann agat" makes sense too. This is from Ua Laoghaire's Gospels:

Quote:
Má gheibheann dritháir dhuine bás agus bean phósta aige, agus gan clann aige, go nglacfadh a dhritháir an bhean agus go dtógfadh sé sliocht d'á dhritháir.


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 Post subject: Re: Réamhfhocal
PostPosted: Tue 21 Nov 2023 2:49 pm 
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Errigal wrote:
Because having children is like having a handicap or physical infirmity...?

I don't think so. That isn't the sense conveyed by "ar" and many positive things use "ar".

I think it's more to do that facts that convey your situation use "ar", roughly speaking.

As djwebb says you can also use "ag" here.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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