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PostPosted: Wed 23 Feb 2022 10:35 pm 
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I want to say:

It would enable us to speak Irish fluently

Is this correct?
Chuirfí ar ár gcumas Gaeilge a labhairt go líofa/ Chuirfí ar ár gcumas bheith líofa Gaeilge a labhairt

GRMA

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Feb 2022 12:42 am 
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I think the use of the saor-bhriathar needs to be justified. It means "one would put" or "people would put". I don't think "chuirfí" is right in this sentence, as the subject is "it":

do chuirfeadh sé ar ár gcumas Gaelainn do labhairt


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PostPosted: Thu 24 Feb 2022 3:43 pm 
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Sorry, I should have said that I want to translate "we would be enabled to speak Irish fluently". But thanks for your reply

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Feb 2022 5:31 pm 
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~RibeRóibéis~ wrote:
Sorry, I should have said that I want to translate "we would be enabled to speak Irish fluently". But thanks for your reply


But that English sentence does not **necessarily** require the saor-bhriathar in Irish.

There is a misconception that the saor-bhriathar is passive, and that where the English has a passive, the Irish should use the saor-bhriathar.

But the saor-bhriathar is an active verb in Irish. Or at least buailtar is, whereas táthar buailte would be passive.

I said "necessarily", as it would depend on the whole of the context, but do chuirfeadh san ar ár gcumas Gaelainn do labhairt go líofa would be fine.

Do chuirfí or do cuirfí is active, but without stating the subject: "someone would put", "people would put". The subject is not mentioned, but there is an active subject. "It would put" or "that would put" has a clear subject--do chuirfeadh sé/san. I don't think you can base any of this on the English sentence, but rather on the internal logic of the Irish, and so whether there is a passive in English or not wouldn't come into it.

It would be interesting to know if the saor-bhriathar is overused by learners of Irish. I suspect so.


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PostPosted: Fri 25 Feb 2022 11:49 am 
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~RibeRóibéis~ wrote:
Sorry, I should have said that I want to translate "we would be enabled to speak Irish fluently". But thanks for your reply


As David already said: autonomous verb forms aren’t passives.
Chuirfí ... means: either you don’t want to or cannot mention who or what would enable us.
But this is apperently not the case.

English passives are usually referring to someone/something already mentioned (who/what enables). Irish autonomous forms aren’t, not at all: Who/what enables remains a mystery. ;)

Often this doesn’t matter and autonomous forms can substitute English passives but here it does matter.

You should use an active sentence with a subject which should be at least "sé".
Chuirfeadh sé ar ár gcumas Gaeilge a labhairt go líofa.


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PostPosted: Fri 25 Feb 2022 12:59 pm 
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Thank you both!

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