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 Post subject: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2021 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:51 pm
Posts: 9
Hi Everyone! :D

I was searching for "Sidhe", as I thought it's the fairy world.
But I found "Aos si" and "Aes Sidhe". What's the right one?
Are they from different times?

Then I'm searching for the Fear Sidhe (FarShee) and they seems to be uncommon compared to the Bean Sidhe (BanShee),
is Fear Sidhe a correct name?

I'm starting studying the Irish Gaelic Mythology but I found a lot of contrasting theories.


Thank you!
Have a nice day :D


Fede


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 Post subject: Re: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2021 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
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Location: 91 - France
In the 1940's they brought in a reform of the spelling in Irish, which made it simpler and easier to understand. That's why you have the two spellings for the same word there. They also changed the form of letters that Irish had been printed in. The old form of letters is called seanchló, they now use roman letters such as Times New Roman. That means that when you wish to read older texts in Irish from the 19th century and earlier, you'll have to get used the older spelling and the print. Scots Gaelic didn't undergo that reform though they have adopted roman letters for Gáidhlig for use in print.
If you are interested in Irish folklore, a good place to start is the journal Béaloideas which is available on JSTOR.


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 Post subject: Re: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2021 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:51 pm
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Hi Franc! Thank you for your answer. I didn't know that!

So I'd like to ask, what's the ancient form? "Aos si" or "Aes Sidhe"?
In general I find more contents about Sidhe, Fear Sidhe etc...than Aos si.
I'd like to know more the ancient version than the new one.

In the meanwhile I'm taking a look on JSTOR.
A strange things is that in Italy there's a lot of people who like Ireland and Irish folklore, but there isn't a lot of content/book about it.
Also music is particularly beautiful.

Thank you for now! It was interesting :D


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 Post subject: Re: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2021 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2108
Location: 91 - France
The older form is sidhe, but you'll find that in seanchló the dh will written as d with a dot over it. The Dinneen Dictionary is on-line in seanchló and with the old spelling - it's on Internet Archive, where you can also find quite a lot of other Irish books that were published towards the end of the 19th century and at the beginning of the 20th. Did you have a look at the Keltia.it website ?


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 Post subject: Re: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2021 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm
Posts: 2933
KikkoKawa wrote:
Hi Everyone! :D

I was searching for "Sidhe", as I thought it's the fairy world.
But I found "Aos si" and "Aes Sidhe". What's the right one?
Are they from different times?

Then I'm searching for the Fear Sidhe (FarShee) and they seems to be uncommon compared to the Bean Sidhe (BanShee),
is Fear Sidhe a correct name?

I'm starting studying the Irish Gaelic Mythology but I found a lot of contrasting theories.


Thank you!
Have a nice day :D


Fede



"Aos Sí" and "Aes Sidhe" (There is a fada on the modern word)
Like Franc explained that's the difference between old spelling and modern spelling.
"Old Irish" is around the 10th century I think.
Then there was "Middle Irish" after that,
and now Modern Irish. I'd be interested to know when Middle Irish changed to Modern Irish, or was there some other name in between.
We were already speaking Modern Irish before the 1940 spelling reform, that was just the government changing the look of Irish to make it simpler to teach and print. In my opinion it was a big mistake.

Bean Sidhe
Bean Sí (modern)
She is one particular individual, it's not a general term. She also follows particular families, so we won't all get the opportunity to hear her. But if you do hear her screeching in the middle of the night, it's a sign that you or somebody else very close to you is going to die soon.

I suppose if you used the lowercase "bean sí" then that could refer to any fairy woman.
A man would be "fear sí", fairy man, it doesn't refer to any individual.


BanShee - That is an anglicisation.


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 Post subject: Re: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2021 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2108
Location: 91 - France
And you'd better not disturb a fairy ring whether it's during the day or after nightfall - or you'll get a telling-off from Eddie Lenihan (Meeting the Other Crowd - the Fairy Stories of Hidden Ireland) A Bhríd, there are pages on Wikpedia that explain all about Pre, Old, Classical and Early Modern and it's i nGaeilge leis - the great pity is that those two wonderful fantastic incredible TV programmes about the History of Irish presented by the one and only Alan Titley aren't available any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2021 4:44 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
And you'd better not disturb a fairy ring whether it's during the day or after nightfall - or you'll get a telling-off from Eddie Lenihan (Meeting the Other Crowd - the Fairy Stories of Hidden Ireland) A Bhríd, there are pages on Wikpedia that explain all about Pre, Old, Classical and Early Modern and it's i nGaeilge leis - the great pity is that those two wonderful fantastic incredible TV programmes about the History of Irish presented by the one and only Alan Titley aren't available any more.


Thanks Franc, it is a subject that I really should know more about.


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 Post subject: Re: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2021 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:51 pm
Posts: 9
Hi! Here I am, sorry for the delay but I took some time in order to make some research following your advices.

Keltia.it seems to be really interesting. I didn't heard of it before. Thank you for the info!

But the thing that hit me is the Dinneen’s dictionary.
I found it here, I hope it’s the right one: http://glg.csisdmz.ul.ie/
I really like it cause it has the interactive database but it also has the scanning of the original pages.
Really rich and interesting, I’m working on it a little.

Thanks Franc and Brid for your precious answer. I really appreciated them.
I’m going to take a deeper look tonight and tomorrow in the content, and I think I will ask something else if it doesn’t bother you.

:D

Thanks again! Have a nice evening


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 Post subject: Re: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Thu 25 Mar 2021 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2108
Location: 91 - France
Personally I find that if you download the one that's on Internet Archive as a PDF file, it's easier to use.

https://archive.org - An Irish-English Dictionary: Being a Thesaurus of Words, Phrases and Idioms.... by Patrick Stephen Dinneen - 847 pages.

There was an Italian academic called Tristano Bolelli who did research into Irish medieval manuscripts, among other subjects such as Italian dialects. There's also an Italian who has posted up three videos on Youtube for learning Irish.

Mildir - Corso di Gaelico on-Line


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 Post subject: Re: Aos si or Aes Sidhe?
PostPosted: Fri 26 Mar 2021 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:51 pm
Posts: 9
Hi Franc, yeah you're right. I downloaded the whole document! :D
Thanks!

I was searching for different words, but mainly I was searching for "fear".
I'm interested in the following "combinations", but I'd want them in the old irish/gaelic:

1) Fear Sidhe
2) Fear Dorcha

In my little research "Fear" seems to be reliable as an old gaelic word. I found it in the dinneen's dictionary and, despite the gaelic font, it seems to be written in the same way as the current one. At the same time Feardorcha seems to be my name in gaelic (Frederick) and, at the same time, an ancient evil male fairy.
About the Fear Sidhe, i call them this way 'cause I found an article on the web talking about this kind of Sidhe. They seems to be male fairies, but mostly on the dark/evil side.
Am I right? :D

It seems to be really thrilling. u_u


In the meanwhile, thanks for the answers and for the info about the italian gaelic courses! I'm taking a look on it :D

Have a nice and happy day!


Fede


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